Floatation Foam

[Iggmon72]

Good day to all. I had a question as I cant locate Floatation Foam. Who carries and sales some blue or pink foam? Or is this not what I should be looking for? Thank you.

[toppack]

If you want to find some local, I would check phonebook for packing supplies or boat repair shops (full scale). If you only need a small piece they may just give you a scrap piece. Flower shops also sell small pieces of closed cell foam.
Here in Dallas there are foam supply stores.
I've always got the blue, mainly because it's easier to find. :)

Where are you located?
If you're in the Outback, you may need to do an Internet search, but shipping is the killer that way. ;)

[Kazzer]

Try Home Depot or Lowes. They sell blue and pink foam for house insulation.

[Nuke Power]

yup lowes and home depot. They sell it in huge sheets cant go wrong.

[toppack]

We never did find out where 'Iggmon' is Located ???
We have to remember that Home Depot or Lowes are not everywhere in the World and this is WWW (World Wide Web). :)

[Nuke Power]

ahh but you did say this is the WWW and both have online stores or any equivalant home building supply store.

[toppack]

Sorry, I checked both HomeDepot and Lowes websites, but could Not find that type foam sheet for sale at either. Some other websites probably do but it appears that those, that Mike suggested, do not. :o

[Kazzer]

I am working on a mold to make a custom fit foam to go inside the ballast tanks on the VII. This is a pourable expanding 6lb foam, which will be shaped exactly to the hull. If it is successful, I anticipate making more molds for different models.

[Nuke Power]

Not a bad Idea just need to make sure you leave room In those saddles. How far ave you gotten with that one?

[Kazzer]

The master mold is made, I just have to pluck up the courage to pour the resin in and make the actual mold! Maybe later this week.

[Nuke Power]

Courage is for women. Gather your balls and do it!

[toppack]

Courage is for women. Gather your balls and do it!

:D LOL :D
Spoken like a True Submariner. :D

[Kazzer]

Courage is for women. Gather your balls and do it!


Its cold enough here to freeze the balls off a brass monkey, so I warmed up the resin a little. Big mistake - ten minutes after pouring it 1" thick into the mold it almost caught fire with exothermic reaction. I managed to retrieve the mold.

Now, if I can find those balls, I'll give it another shot today.

[Nuke Power]

That is awsome! Ive never heard of anyone warming the resin before. I believe someone even said just let it come to temperature on another board.

Mike do you even know where the phrase "freezing the balls off a brass monkey" comes from.

[Kazzer]

The resin was pretty thick and I normally get it to 85-90 degrees to make it runny, then it pours into my molds easily. But this time it was 2 quarts of material. No big deal, I added sand to it to make the mold and that mixed in well and then cooled it back down. Not a problem.

A Brass Monkey was a tripod of steel rods with large brass balls on the ends of the rods. Red hot cannon balls would be placed onto the tripod waiting for the gunners to reload the cannons. In very cold weather, the balls would lose their grip on the steel rod and fall off. Hence the phrase. All part of the lecture on the tour of HMS Victory. (My grandfather was stationed there and I have his photo with his cap band saying HMS Victory.)

[Nuke Power]

hmm i heard it a little differently Mike. Must be the british version :)

[Kazzer]

hmm i heard it a little differently Mike. Must be the british version :)


Well? Come on then! Spit it out! Your version that is!

[Nuke Power]

I will think about it. Perhaps completion and posting of your molds will sway me.

[Nuke Power]

he first recorded use of the term "brass monkey" appears to dates to 1857 when it was used in an apparently vulgar context by C.A. Abbey in his book Before the Mast, where on page 108 it says "It would freeze the tail off a brass monkey." [Source: Lighter, J.E. ed. Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang. (New York: Random House, 1994): 262.]

It has often been claimed that the "brass monkey" was a holder or storage rack in which cannon balls (or shot) were stacked on a ship. Supposedly when the "monkey" with its stack of cannon ball became cold, the contraction of iron cannon balls led to the balls falling through or off of the "monkey." This explanation appears to be a legend of the sea without historical justification. In actuality, ready service shot was kept on the gun or spar decks in shot racks (also known as shot garlands in the Royal Navy) which consisted of longitudinal wooden planks with holes bored into them, into which round shot (cannon balls) were inserted for ready use by the gun crew. These shot racks or garlands are discussed in: Longridge, C. Nepean. The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships. (Annapolis MD: Naval Institute Press, 1981): 64. A top view of shot garlands on the upper deck of a ship-of-the-line is depicted in The Visual Dictionary of Ships and Sailing. New York: Dorling Kindersley, 1991): 17.

[Kazzer]

My monkey was only used for red hot cannon balls, so the HMS Victory guys says.

[toppack]

I have read and heard (on TV, history channel) about cannon-balls being heated during battle, to do more damage. So it seems logical that they would need something special to hold them. So I doubt that the brass-monkeys are a myth.

[toppack]

I'm now trying to do flotation-foam and lead-ballast testing of the Gato.

I found that both hull and SD were riding Higher at bow ends, so I removed some foam from hull bow. Now hull sits level, fore & aft, and it's at proper surfaced depth level without SD installed. Is that the the way it should be or should the hull sink? Or can you not tell until a flooded SD is installed?

The SD sinks and surfaces as it should but I have not tried it in hull yet. It's just a little higher at forward end when surfaced.
I suppose that means that I'll need to add a little more lead in bow of hull, to compensate, correct?

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

I'm now trying to do flotation-foam and lead-ballast testing of the Gato.

I found that both hull and SD were riding Higher at bow ends, so I removed some foam from hull bow. Now hull sits level, fore & aft, and it's at proper surfaced depth level without SD installed. Is that the the way it should be or should the hull sink? Or can you not tell until a flooded SD is installed?

The SD sinks and surfaces as it should but I have not tried it in hull yet. It's just a little higher at forward end when surfaced.
I suppose that means that I'll need to add a little more lead in bow of hull, to compensate, correct?

Here's the surface/submerged trim set-up protocol for a wet-hull type r/c submarine:

Everything installed (including the SD ... Duh!); the ballast tank flooded, the boat trimmed by quantity and location of foam and fixed ballast weight to sit level, submerged with just an inch or so of sail projecting into the air; with the ballast tank empty, move foam above/below waterline to get the boat to sit with the waterline at the designed location -- DO NOT move any of the foam fore or aft.

Done!

David,

[toppack]

Okay.....I was just trying to figure a way to do it without having to take the SD Out & In so dang Many times, since it's not easy for me to do with one good hand, but if you think that difficult way is the Only way, I'll give a try.
I think if I had the experience to know how the hull and SD (mainly the hull), by themselves, should react in water, then I would know how they will act when put together? At least close, which would greatly reduce the disassembly/assembly times. Which is what I was trying to do.

Maybe I'll get lucky, and not have to do it Too many times. :)
Thanks,

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Okay.....I was just trying to figure a way to do it without having to take the SD Out & In so dang Many times, since it's not easy for me to do with one good hand, but if you think that difficult way is the Only way, I'll give a try.
I think if I had the experience to know how the hull and SD (mainly the hull), by themselves, should react in water, then I would know how they will act when put together? At least close, which would greatly reduce the disassembly/assembly times. Which is what I was trying to do.

Maybe I'll get lucky, and not have to do it Too many times. :)
Thanks,

Well ... and I appreciate the hand thing ... what I gave you is the 'easy' way. Gotta work around it, pal.

David,

[toppack]

I'll report back when I've determined what a properly trimmed Hull, by itself, with no SD installed, should do.
I hoped someone already had that Information, to save a lot of time and effort, for everyone building a RC submarine, not just me.

[Kazzer]

Okay.....I was just trying to figure a way to do it without having to take the SD Out & In so dang Many times, since it's not easy for me to do with one good hand, but if you think that difficult way is the Only way, I'll give a try.
Thanks,

I think what you are missing is that you can strap the lumps of foam or weights to the hull on the OUTSIDE of the model with rubber bands. A few attempts to add/subtract foam is really dead easy to do. Once you have figured out the size and rough location of the foam, you simply glue it inside and do a final test.
No need to keep opening up the boat!

[toppack]

Okay....I may try that on my Next Sub, but It's Too Late to do that on this one. Already stuck foam inside hull. :o
I do mean Well Stuck! ;)
I've about got it trimmed out, if I can get over these other little problems that keep croping up.

[deepseadiver]

Lowes carries it in their insulation board area. Yes it's what you are looking for. It has to be closed cell foam or it will get water logged in time and defeat the purpose. Also try home base, has it the last time i looked . Home depot does not carry it at least not the two i have looked at . Look at construction sites using it for bathroom wall insulation , they some times throw pieces of it away in there dumpsters, i have seen a lot that way. Its free also.

Jim

[toppack]

I found out that water-based outdoor Paint Does work well on polystyrene floation Foam. No melting or distortion. I had to let dry overnight, it seems to dry slower on foam? I did get it on thick tho.
I had to use a spray-gun to do it, but No biggy since there is easy clean-up also with that paint.
One thick coat was all that was needed. :)

No more Pink Submarine parts! :)

[Kazzer]

I found out that water-based outdoor Paint Does work well on polystyrene floation Foam. No melting or distortion. I had to let dry overnight, it seems to dry slower on foam? I did get it on thick tho.
I had to use a spray-gun to do it, but No biggy since there is easy clean-up also with that paint.
One thick coat was all that was needed. :)

No more Pink Submarine parts! :)

One thick coat will take 10 times longer to dry than 2 thin coats. The drying process is also speeded up by the substrate absorbing the water content. In the case of foam, there is no absorption, hence the longer drying time.

[Slats]

Did I miss something here, why the heck are we painting floatation foam?

J

[toppack]

Did I miss something here, why the heck are we painting floatation foam?

J
Simple, I don't Like Pink Subs or Pink parts in them.
The Pink polystyrene is the only good flotation foam I could find locally, since I've used up all my blue foam.
I was talking about this in another thread but could not remember where so thought I'd stick my comment here, Sorry. :)

[deepseadiver]

I was the one that painted my flotation foam because it was pink i was looking for blue but could not find it. I painted it with a flat neon green it does nothing to the foam in any way it works just fine plus it's the color i wanted .Go to my gato submarine thread and you will see three pictures of it inside the hull it turned out just fine. If you like pink then live with it. personally i do not like the color. Oh what the heck heres a picture of it. I got my foam at lowes, its insulation foam used in bathrooms you can find it at construction jobs look in there dumster i see it all the time:D



Jim

[junglelord]

I love that colour of green. If your not man enough for pink, I always say go green. ;)

[toppack]

Yep, I like the green also, but the water-based paint, that I have already, is flat camo Tan, so that's the interior color mine will be. :D LOL
It will go well with the flat camo green, of the exterior. :D

[deepseadiver]

I love that colour of green. If your not man enough for pink, I always say go green. ;)

I think woman would like that color more then a guy :eek: and i wanted my submarine to show its more aggresive side. :D

[toppack]

I was considering an experiment of gluing something under the superstructure/deck of my Gato. Filling that space with something light weight (not much heavier than water) but with little buoyancy would make that space a Neutral-buoyancy area that would not trap air or water. Therefore not effecting trim much, reducing the effects of traped air in that area.
I was thinking about using a dense rubber material that does not absorb water and does not float.
Has anyone else tried this?

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

I was considering an experiment of gluing something under the superstructure/deck of my Gato. Filling that space with something light weight (not much heavier than water) but with little buoyancy would make that space a Neutral-buoyancy area that would not trap air or water. Therefore not effecting trim much, reducing the effects of traped air in that area.
I was thinking about using a dense rubber material that does not absorb water and does not float.
Has anyone else tried this?

You're talking about placing stuff up high in the model with a density of 1. Bad move, it raises the c.g and the boat will roll like a pig.

David,

[toppack]

We don't want any 'Rolling Pigs'! :D
Surely there's some material that won't effect top-weight and flotation much, but will fill that area ??? :confused:
What about the stuff NASA invented, Aero-gel (Space-gel)?
Does it float?
Anyone have a good contact at NASA?

There's bound to be something that will work?

[Kazzer]

We don't want any 'Rolling Pigs'! :D
Surely there's some material that won't effect top-weight and flotation much, but will fill that area ??? :confused:
What about the stuff NASA invented, Aero-gel (Space-gel)?
Does it float?
Anyone have a good contact at NASA?

There's bound to be something that will work?

Try Scotch Mist! That will change from one state to another. :)

You have two distinct problems here. When the boat is surfaced, that void needs to be as light as air. When the boat is submerged it needs to be as heavy as water. Something added that is in between won't work in either state. Pure physics!

Actually there is a third and fluctuating state. During a dive or surface, the void will be proportionally full of water and air depending on the depth.

Best solution - air and water! :D

[toppack]

Try Scotch Mist! :)

Now, I Really Like that suggestion! I'll drink to THAT!

Oh well, I tried!
Physics defeated me again! :rolleyes:

I'll keep looking for the 'Magic Solution', tho! :)

[Kazzer]

Oh well, I tried!
Physics defeated me again! :rolleyes:


It gets us all eventually!