British T-class

[toppack]

I want to build the T-class in 1/48th scale if possible, and I think I can build working Torpedos in 1/48th (1/4") scale.
I've seen motors that size (less than 1/2" diameter) for sale somewhere, if I can find them again.
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I've even decided which T-class to model.
The group-3, HMS Tally-Ho (P317). I think that Very British sounding name is just Great.
The name was chosen by Winston Churchill.
She had a Red-Fox for their Badge-crest,
And had some Interesting exploits during the war and survived it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Tally-Ho_(P317) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Tally-Ho_%28P317%29)
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I found a readable drawing, showing general layout of most parts of the T-class.

Anyone have any better, more detailed drawings or pictures of deck hardware, such as guns and tower-internals?
Thanks,

Click Drawing Pic:

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It appears that one the most difficult parts, of the T-class, to fabricate, will be the aft dive-plane linkage-arm-assembly, which will need to be down inside the large ventral-fin, since the DP shaft is mounted about half way down the Fin.
May have to use a bell-crank to route the linkage 90 degrees down into fin ???
Is that the best way, or is there a simpler way?
Does the fin maybe have enough access space inside it to get in a bent linkage rod ?
(this is a large model)

I suppose I could move the DPs up higher than original position. Few people would know the difference ;), but they really need to be directly behind the props, correct?

Fin Pic:

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

It appears that one the most difficult parts, of the T-class, to fabricate, will be the aft dive-plane linkage-arm-assembly, which will need to be down inside the large ventral-fin, since the DP shaft is mounted about half way down the Fin.
May have to use a bell-crank to route the linkage 90 degrees down into fin ???
Is that the best way, or is there a simpler way?
Does the fin maybe have enough access space inside it to get in a bent linkage rod ?
(this is a large model)

I suppose I could move the DPs up higher than original position. Few people would know the difference ;), but they really need to be directly behind the props, correct?

Fin Pic:

rack-and-pinion.

David,

[toppack]

rack-and-pinion.

David,

I have an extra that I got for my full-scale '34 Ford Hot-rod.
Do you think that will fit ? :D

Mike,
What's your opinion on that, and don't say 'rack-and-pinion'. :)
Also:
In the picture of the T-class Ventral-fin it appears that it is longer than original, (not to scale).
Is this correct? If so, the Rudder would be larger than scale also ??? Which would be 'a good thing' I believe?
See drawing and Fin Pic in previous posts:

[Kazzer]

[quote=toppack;745]

Mike,
What's your opinion on that, and don't say 'rack-and-pinion'. :)
/quote]
The model comes with these planes and rudders already molded, they look scale to me. The connection is simple. I did it easily on my S Class. Bell crank, rudder works the same way, and plenty ( well enough) room.


I also have numerous plans of T Class. We just need to figure out which ones you want and order a new set from John Lambert.

[toppack]

Okay Great, I may go ahead and get the drawings sometime soon but I'll need to wait until I completely finish the boats I'm working on now before ordering the Hull and SD for the T-class. Maybe you will have brought down the price of the hull some, by then, ya reckon? :)
You certainly know which drawings I will Need, better than I, so I'll let you deside on those.

[toppack]

I found 2 small DC motors in my junk-box, in some mini-servos that had bad gears, so I may try to use them in my Torpedos.
At 2.5 volts (2 Ni-Cad batteries) the RPM is good and have enough torque, but I was hopeing to find motors that would run well on 1 battery. These won't. :rolleyes:
Finding some that will operate at that low voltage may be very difficult. :confused:

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

I found 2 small DC motors in my junk-box, in some mini-servos that had bad gears, so I may try to use them in my Torpedos.
At 2.5 volts (2 Ni-Cad batteries) the RPM is good and have enough torque, but I was hopeing to find motors that would run well on 1 battery. These won't. :rolleyes:
Finding some that will operate at that low voltage may be very difficult. :confused:

Not a battery, a high-capacity electrolytic capacitor -- small enough to fit the torpedo body, will hold enough charge to get you a very good range, but not enough charge to loose the weapon. I learned this from the work of Dan Kachur -- one of Canada's top model builders and practical model engineers.

David,

[toppack]

But the charge would only last for less than 1 second, wouldn't it? It seems that the torpedo would Not get very far, with a motor drawing 600. milliamps or so?
Did he have some very Low current motors?
I'll experiment with various capacitors on these motors and see how long they last.

And Recharging them at the lake could be a Real hassel? ;)

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

But the charge would only last for less than 1 second, wouldn't it? It seems that the torpedo would Not get very far, with a motor drawing 600. milliamps or so?
Did he have some very Low current motors?
I'll experiment with various capacitors on these motors and see how long they last.

And Recharging them at the lake could be a Real hassel? ;)

He got significant run times and range -- not an issue. A removable front end revealed the cap. contact points for on-site charging -- only took a few seconds to bang the cap. up from a battery.

Don't make this any harder than you have too! Stop arguing with me, damit!

David,

[toppack]

:D LOL :D
Just tryin to get 'the full picture'.
I'll give it a try. I'm always Open to new Ideas. ;)
Thanks,

[toppack]

Did he use a current limiting resistor, in series with the Cap, to slow down the discharge or was cap connected directly to motor, thru switch?

[toppack]

If my calculations are correct, a 24.ohm resistor would be best, if the cap is charged to 12.volts?

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

If my calculations are correct, a 24.ohm resistor would be best, if the cap is charged to 12.volts?

I don't know the details, but I think the only load was the motor itself.

David,

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Okay, Looks like I'll be doing some more experimenting, unless someone knows details of the Capacitor powered Torpedo design ??? Because it definitely sounds like it's worth a try, if I can round up the needed components, from my Goody-boxes. :)

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Does Caswell stock Raboesch Propellers for the T-class yet?
If not, what type and diameter props does it require?
I assume they should be 4-blade, correct?

[Kazzer]

I think I have a couple of props somewhere:)

I do need to check on the size, but I think they are 1" diamete, according to Lambert plans. They are three bladed. I'll ask on a the Barrow forum to see if someone can give us a more precise answer.

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1" props sounds finda small for 1/48th scale, but I guess that could be correct?
3 bladed will be easier to find.

[toppack]

I just found a nice set (L & R) of Raboesch props in 2" diameter, in my goody-box.
I hope they will work?

[Kazzer]

I just found a nice set (L & R) of Raboesch props in 2" diameter, in my goody-box.
I hope they will work?

Nope! No good! Far too big. 1" 3 blades - that what you need!

[toppack]

Nope! No good! Far too big. 1" 3 blades - that what you need!

Okay...... I guess putting them on the belt-sander would be Wrong. :o

Mike, did you get the PM I sent?

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I found and purchased a Great reference Book on the T-class.
It's 'The T-class Submarine' by Paul J. Kemp.
It has many good pictures and very Interesting Information.

I noticed many things about them that I didn't realize before. One is that they (at least most of them) had large fixed horizontal fins mounted above the aft dive-planes. I would definitely want to add these, to help protect the DPs and props.

I also saw other errors in the design of the 1/48th hull kit.
Some of these will be major modifictions to the model. Such as the shape of the flank-mounted torpedo-tubes, which should be round at opening, not triangle shaped. :(
See first Pic:
Also the lower bow torpedo-tubes appear to be smaller than the others. That can't be correct? I think all the tube openings will need to be cut out and reworked to get them looking correct?
See second Pic:
This is turning into a much bigger project than I expected!
I'll not only have to fabricate a great deal of the parts but I'll also need to correct much that has been done already. :(
Sorry, Mike, but I calls 'em Like I sees 'em.
If I'm wrong, please let me know, I am Only looking at pictures, that may not be true representations?

[Kazzer]

Okay...... I guess putting them on the belt-sander would be Wrong. :o

Mike, did you get the PM I sent?

Yes! Do you want a smackyhead?:eek:

No!

[Kazzer]

I found and purchased a Great reference Book on the T-class.
It's 'The T-class Submarine' by Paul J. Kemp.
It has many good pictures and very Interesting Information.

I have MANY more pictures.



I noticed many things about them that I didn't realize before. One is that they (at least most of them) had large fixed horizontal fins mounted above the aft dive-planes. I would definitely want to add these, to help protect the DPs and props.
I also saw other errors in the design of the 1/48th hull kit.


Actually, there are few errors with this model. I would say that its a pretty good representation of the boat. You have to realise that the T class was rife with modifications. If you follow the life of some of these boats, you'll see that they morphed into different things as they went through their life. In the latter stages of the war, many Ts were turned into 'Slippery T's which stripped them of guns and many surface holes in an effort to quieten them.
See the two photos of Trump - note the sonar on the bow, and all guns missing.



Some of these will be major modifictions to the model. Such as the shape of the flank-mounted torpedo-tubes, which should be round at opening, not triangle shaped. :(


The tubes are round, and just need cutting out.



See first Pic:
Also the lower bow torpedo-tubes appear to be smaller than the others. That can't be correct? I think all the tube openings will need to be cut out and reworked to get them looking correct?

No, its not correct. The openings are round and are the same size.



See second Pic:
This is turning into a much bigger project than I expected!
I'll not only have to fabricate a great deal of the parts but I'll also need to correct much that has been done already. :(


That depends on what you decide to do. There are no guns or internals for the conning tower with the kit. The forward dive planes are molded and I don't like them, because they were made of flat sheet metal, not profiled. I made mine from brass sheet. The plane guards are made from the same. Probably better to cut them from aluminum as you will need to reduce above waterline weight. The rear planes are supplied, as is the rudder.

Conning towers change with the wind, but if you go with a Slippery design, this should be easy to carve out from some foam, then fiberglass.

I'll set up a slideshow of all the photos I have, and sort out the plans.

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Mike, You made me feel much better about this project. :)
Thanks for the Info,

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That hull configuration is already similar to the boat I've desided to model, the 'Tally-Ho', with 8 forward and 3 aft tubes, (mid war config), so not much of a problem there.
See Pic:
Yes, I agree, Aluminum is the way to go, with fabing DPs and fins, and I have plenty in stock just waiting to be transformed. :)

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Anyone know what color the deck and tower, of the Tally-ho, were painted? I doubt there were ever any color pictures of any of the T-class Subs. I have not found anything about what colors were used. I assume it was primarily a Dark Gray?
But they could have been Blue, or even Red 'for all I Know'. :D
The Tally-ho appears to be a much darker color than some of the T-class, but not black.
The lower hull does appear to be black, tho.

[Kazzer]

Propellers!

5 feet 4 inches diameter!!!! It's official from Blighty.

So your props for the T class at 1:48 scale = 1.3" diameter

[toppack]

Propellers!

5 feet 4 inches diameter!!!! It's official from Blighty.

So your props for the T class at 1:48 scale = 1.3" diameter

Okay, Great, Thanks
I guess 1.5" would be best available size to use.
I'll wait until I start working on the shaft assemblies to determine that, tho.

Hey, I might even be able to squeeze in my 2 inchers. :D LOL :D (Hot-rod Model-T) :D

Not really, that would be Wrong. :p

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Mike,
Have you Seen the Drawings, that we will be ordering for the T-class, or is this more of a 'Shot in the Dark', as to whether they have the detail Info I'll need?
I suppose that source is the 'Only game in town' tho, correct?
Are there other options, if 'No Joy' with that one?

[toppack]

I have all the drawings here, and am hoping to blow them up to be exactly the right scale.

Yes, they are the only game in town, and they are taken from Admiralty drawings given to John Lambert many years ago. All good stuff.
Mike,

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Okay, Great,
Thanks

[toppack]

Wake Up, Mike
I'm ready to start my (Hot-rod Model-T). :D
Where's my Parts and Drawings??? :confused:

[Kazzer]

The model is ready and His Eminence has shipped the Sub-drivers, so we should have them on Friday.

[toppack]

Great, What about the Scale-Drawings and the 3/16" 35mm Props?
Those are the things I've been worrying about. ;)

[Kazzer]

Plans have been rescaled and will be available in a couple of days. I'm pretty sure we have the props, but I'll check when I call in the warehouse.

[toppack]

What! Me Worry?
Nothing to Worry about! :D

[toppack]

I found another model of the Tally-ho. :)
I was beginning to think no one else had done a model of that boat.
See Link:
http://www.81x.com/paul123/Military/

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Mike,
I see that John Lambert also has drawings of the guns used on the T-class. The 4" mark-XXIII and 20.mm Oerkilon.
Are those included with the drawings you have?
I may not necessarily need those but would be great to have, since I'll probably be completely hand fabricating those.

[Deep Diver]

Hello:)
This is my first post, so here goes.
My late father was one of the crew of HMS/M Truculent, She went down on the 12/01/1950, a total of 64 was lost along with 5 R.A.F crew, so you see I have an interest in "T" class boats.

To the gentleman doing the Tally-Ho have you read the book called The Hunting Submarine, the fighting life of HMS/M Tally-ho
(ISBN 0718302737)

I look forward to talking to you all soon.:D

[Deep Diver]

Hello me again

I have a copy of John Lambert plans of the 4" Gun, can do a copy for you if you like. I also got a 20mm AA gun made for me by Deans Marine here in the U.K.

[toppack]

To the gentleman doing the Tally-Ho have you read the book called The Hunting Submarine, the fighting life of HMS/M Tally-ho (ISBN 0718302737)

No, I've not seen that book anywhere. I'll try to find it. Sounds Interesting!
Thanks,


I have a copy of John Lambert plans of the 4" Gun, can do a copy for you if you like. I also got a 20mm AA gun made for me by Deans Marine here in the U.K.

That would be Great! :)
Do you have a Paypal account? I'd be glad to send any S&H required. If not, we can make other arrangments? Can you send it by email attachment?
I found a drawing of 4" gun, on internet, but it only has left side view. :(

Maybe I should find out what Mike Caswell has for me first tho. ;)

I don't understand about the 20mm from Dean's. Do they stock them or was your's a special order and they used their drawings to make a one-off for you?
Was it in 1/48th scale?

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I found a 20mm-Oerkilon kit at Dean's, but it's 1/24th scale. Is that the one you got?
I would need to put it in my 'Shrinking Ray'. :D LOL :D
Click Pic:

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I found and ordered the book about Tally-ho, at an online bookstore in Australia. Shipping will probably be more than the book cost but 'What tha Heck' we're Havin' Fun. :D

I found Info about sinking of the Truculent. Ran into a Swedish tanker while manuvering between ships in Thames. Most men got out when she sank but then froze in the freezing water. Very sad, Indeed.

[Deep Diver]

Hi
I can do a photo copy on to A4 and post it to you, as for the 20mm Ron Dean did me two guns, I will look up his e-mail adress and post it on to this site, he just may do a small run of them,

[Kazzer]

No, I've not seen that book anywhere. I'll try to find it. Sounds Interesting!
Thanks,



That would be Great! :)
Do you have a Paypal account? I'd be glad to send any S&H required. If not, we can make other arrangments? Can you send it by email attachment?
I found a drawing of 4" gun, on internet, but it only has left side view. :(

Maybe I should find out what Mike Caswell has for me first tho. ;)



Lets not forget that John Lambert makes a living from these plans, I do have a copy of his guns drawings, but I am trying to work out a small royalty deal if I run a copy. To date, I've not found any interest in the plans and it hasn't been something I needed to do so I've not pressed John.

The plans I have --

4"gun QF Mark XXIII on 4" S2 Mounting
4.7" gun QFSA 40 calibre gun on CP Mark XV mounting 1930
The latter was fitted to HMS Thames & Porpoise & Some Parthian and Rainbow class boats.

Lambert has a few other plans see www.lambert-plans.com (http://www.lambert-plans.com)

1 sheet subject = £10.50 and he takes Paypal.

[Kazzer]

Hello:)
This is my first post, so here goes.
My late father was one of the crew of HMS/M Truculent, She went down on the 12/01/1950, a total of 64 was lost along with 5 R.A.F crew, so you see I have an interest in "T" class boats.



Was your dad on the boat when it went down? Where was she operating out of? I think my dad was on her for a short while, or at least working on her from the depot ship.

[Deep Diver]

Hi
Yes he was one of those that was lost, we have a service on the day every year in Chaterham,

She had just had a refit in Chaterham, and had been out on sea trails, the rest is history as they say.

[toppack]

I'm not sure which version of the 4" gun the Tally-ho had, mid war, but I think the Mark-XXIII would a good one to model. I also found some pictures of one that is in an outdoor museum somewhere, but some details I can't see, since it appears that some of it's parts are missing.

So Mike, if you can include copy of that drawing in my Order, at a reduced price of course ;), that would be great. I just don't want to pay a lot for it since I have much of the Info I need already.
Thanks,

[toppack]

Here's some pics of 4" gun I found. I think it's a mark-XXIII?
Sure are a Lot of Levers and Knobs on it. :(
Does this gun look like the drawings that you guys have?
If so, is anything missing from this one?
Click Pics:

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Mike,
* Is the 4" gun pictured above the same as drawings you have?

* What's the latest on getting the T-class drawing scaled?

Not trying to Rush you but........Well, I guess I Am. :D LOL :D
I'm very eager to get started on it! :)
Thanks,

[Kazzer]

Here is some more information on the guns

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_4_inch_naval_gun_Mk_IV,_XII,_XXII


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/QF_4_inch_Mk_XII_gun_HMS_Thorough_1954_AWM_302490. jpeg/180px-QF_4_inch_Mk_XII_gun_HMS_Thorough_1954_AWM_302490. jpeg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:QF_4_inch_Mk_XII_gun_HMS_Thorough_1954_AWM_30 2490.jpeg) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:QF_4_inch_Mk_XII_gun_HMS_Thorough_1954_AWM_30 2490.jpeg)
Mk XII gun on HMS Thorough (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Thorough_%28P324%29), 1954


The Mk XII variant was developed for arming submarines from 1918, Mk XXII was developed to arm submarines during World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II). These submarine guns fired a heavier 35-pound projectile from late 1944[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_4_inch_naval_gun_Mk_IV,_XII,_XXII#cite_note-DiGiulian-0). Mk XII and XXII equipped :


L class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_L_class_submarine)
Odin ("O") class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin_class_submarine)
Parthian ("P") class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_class_submarine)
River (or Thames) class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_class_submarine)
Grampus (or Porpoise) class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grampus_class_submarine)
Triton ("T") class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_T_class_submarine)
S class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_S_class_submarine_%281931%29)
Some of the Amphion ("A" or Acheron) class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphion_class_submarine)


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/QF_4_inch_Mk_XII_gun_HMS_Thorough_1954_AWM_302490. jpeghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/QF_4_inch_Mk_XII_gun_on_T_class_submarine_AWM_3064 79.jpeg

[Kazzer]

And more 4" guns - HMS Thrasher

I've looked at Lambert's Plan of the XXII gun and it is so detailed that I don't think it will be much use. I'm not sure what the front shield looked like on Totem, and that, and the barrel will probably be the main consideration when making a gun.

[toppack]

Yes, I'm not sure what the large tank is for (above barrel) on the mark-XXIII, but it's certainly Not on most T-class guns? The Tally-ho didn't have a shield over gun, most of them did not.
I think I have enough Info to build it now. :)
Thanks for pictures and links,

Anyone else notice how Mike keeps avoiding my questions about when my order will be ready? Should I start worrying again??? :confused: :D LOL :D

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More pics of 4" mark-XXII Gun:
I think this is the 1939 design, without bell shaped muzzle (on end of barrel).
Note, last one has vision-blocking shield.

[Kazzer]

Anyone else notice how Mike keeps avoiding my questions about when my order will be ready? Should I start worrying again??? :confused: :D LOL :D


That's because I seldom go in to the office. I'll see what's what tomorrow.

[toppack]

That's because I seldom go in to the office. I'll see what's what tomorrow.

Be sure to take your Whip with you! Crack That WHip :D LOL :D

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I received the book 'The Hunting Submarine' by Ian Trenowden, that I ordered from a military book store in Australia.
It has a few pictures of the HMS Tally-Ho that I've not seen before, one of which is a very good shot of the deck, that will be helpfull for painting info. She was painted in an interesting 2-tone pattern (very dark and very light), different than most T-class subs.
Of course those colors could have been Pink and Dark-Red, for all I Know! :D
There is a great deal of Info about her missions and crew, which will be fun to read. :)
It shows a different Badge-crest than one shown on the submarine website. Of a Sea-horse not a Fox. It seems that a Fox would have been better, but now I'm not sure which is correct?

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I designed a 'Completely Different' Bow-plane Retract system using only ball-joint pivots, bell-crank levers and push-pull rods.
I won't know for sure that it will work untill I try it, since hole clearances in levers are going to be critical to let them retract as well as pivot up/down.
I think I'll need to try something simple, since I probably won't have enough room for a geared retract along with the torpedo launchers in the bow.
But that is a large model, I may find that there is enough space, when I get the hull.
I was told that it was on the Truck, heading my way. :)

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I'm thinking about adding another small WTC to the bow end of the 3.5" SD, (since it doesn't have one there already), Not for battery but for bow dive-plane-retract and activate servos, and the torpedo-release servos. Then run the linkage-rods thru the forward bulkhead, instead of trying to route rods all the way from aft end.
Probably 4 servos total in forward WTC.
I'll put a separate 5.volt regulator in it also, so those servos will not be powered from the speed-control circuit, since I'll be using high-torque servos there to pull the triggers. :)
It's going to be crowded enough without those at aft end also.:D
Getting the servo wires from aft WTC to forward WTC, the best way, is what I have Not desided yet? There are several ways but none of them are real easy and perfect. :rolleyes:
There will only be one signal-wire per servo which will only require a small hole in bottom of each WTC, so maybe it would be best to run them external with RTV at holes?

[toppack]

This is the Heavy-duty type coupler that I like for 3/16" and larger prop shafts. It has the quiet and smooth operation of a rubber coupler and splined connections for no slip at high torque. It will handle high-torque high speed reversals that some couplers won't. Robbe #1446, but I found a batch of an industrial version of the same thing at a much lower price.
This is what I'll be using in the T-class and Nautilus projects.
Click Pic:

[Kazzer]

Phew! That thing looks like overkill to me. My old S class clunks along at about 2-3 miles an hour, which scales to about 12 knots on the real thing.
Personally, I think these WWII boats look much more majestic at the slower speeds so why would you want to do anything faster?

I would have thought the Dumas type couplers would be more than adequate.
But I'm no expert of this.

[toppack]

Mike, you're correct about it being over-kill for most boats and Dumas couplers are fine at slow speeds and low torque. I just like to build with the 'best components available', as long as they don't 'cost too much'. :D
With those I can be going full speed and Slam it into reverse and not worry about brakeing the coupler. :)

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I found out that on her first Patrol the HMS Tally-Ho was painted Green, which confirms my assumption that they were Not all painted gray.
It was discribed as 'solid flat Slime-green', with no numbers or badge painted on tower.
I'm not sure what color Slime-green is, but I think it's more of a medium green, not olive-drab.
She must have been repainted several times, so hopefully the book I'm reading will discribe the latter colors also.
I've only started the book.

Mike,
Would you happen to know what color the British consider Slime to be? :D LOL :D

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I received the T-class hull this evening.
After about 30 minutes of both my wife and I digging thru packing-penuts we found everything on the Invoice. :D LOL :D
It looks about like I expected. Hey, I wanted a Challenge. :D
The torpedo-tube-door depressions are NOT all the same size, as I thought, but I need to drill those out and reshape them anyway, since I want to add launchers.
There was one D-shaped flat piece of resin in the box, that I have not figured out what it is, tho? :confused:

[Kazzer]

Mike,
Would you happen to know what color the British consider Slime to be? :D LOL :D

Brunswick Green (Hunter Green will do.) Sounds like the boat did service in the Far East?

[toppack]

Brunswick Green (Hunter Green will do.) Sounds like the boat did service in the Far East?

Yes, I think Far East was the Only place during the war.

Okay, Thanks, I'll try to find Brunswick green. That even sounds British. :D

I figured out what the unknown shunk of resin is, The fixed horizontal fins for stern. I'm not sure how it is supposed to be installed, in it's present shape, without making a oversize hole in one side of hull, but I can sand it down and make fit, I think. :) It just looked a lot different than I expected. I thought there would be 2 fins that mounted externally, not 1 piece that slides thru holes to be cut in hull. It will be very strong the one-piece way tho.

Aah, the 'Smell of Fiberglass Dust in the Morning', brings back memories. ;)
Choke! Choke! Where's my Dust-mask! :eek:

[Kazzer]

Yes, I think Far East was the Only place during the war.

Okay, Thanks, I'll try to find Brunswick green. That even sounds British. :D

thought there would be 2 fins that mounted externally, not 1 piece that slides thru holes to be cut in hull.

Just use a FLAT Hunter Green! Stephen Jenner (1st Lieutenant MS Sibyl) told me that was what it looked like.

As for the rear fins, look closely, there are two lines across it on one side. Cut along here to give you each separate fin, throw the middle away, then fix them on with a screw and epoxy.

[toppack]

Okay, Hunter-Green it is. I may have to add some High-lights, here and there tho, with a darker green. Solid green sounds kinda Boring. ;)

I'll have to look at those fins but it looks like they were made the correct width to slip thur slots in hull and epoxy. It sure would be easier and stronger than cutting and attaching separately, if it is the right length.

[toppack]

I got the 3.5" Sub-driver (in kit form) today. :)
I didn't realize none of the holes were drilled in the tube, but no problem, I got most of them drilled (and the 2 tapped), except for the 3 large 1" vent holes.

David,
What is the best way to do those? I have a 1" drill bit, but it is for 1/2" chuck, so I'll have to do those on drill-press, and I can't do that with one hand. My wife can help me tho.
I have a shot-bag-pillow that I could lay it on while drilling.
Or is there a better way, I don't want to crack it?

I think I have a 1" hole-saw also, if that would be better?

How about drilling five or six 1/2" holes instead of the three 1" holes? Would that work?
I would have No problem drilling that size. :D

[toppack]

Hoo-ray! I got the Scary part done . :)
I got All the holes drilled, counter-sunk and tapped in that very fragile lookin' piece of pipe.
Didn't brake Anything, didn't even say any Curse words. :D LOL :D

I used a 1" hole-saw to make the large vent holes.(Cuts Like Butta' :D)

[toppack]

I got the vent/blow-bulkhead & gas-tank assembly installed in lexan tube. That was Fun! Censored
The only problem I had is that the bulkhead/O-ring did Not fit tightly in the tube. It was a little too small.
I had to try to seal it with a lot of RTV (both under and on top of O-ring), which I did not want to do, since it will be difficult to take out if needed.
I have not leak tested yet, I may still have to get more RTV down in there somehow. I'll wait until in the morning to test it.

David,
I wonder why it was so loose, the O-ring was same size as on the end caps, and they fit fine? :confused:

[toppack]

Well, it IS leaking past O-ring. My hand is too large to get in there to push in more RTV, but my wife's will fit in so maybe I can talk her into doing it.

Mike & David,
I suggest that you check the fit of other 3.5" center bulkheads, if you don't know about this problem already, the one I recieved with that SD kit definitely has too small an O.D.
I'll make it work somehow, tho. :cool:

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Well, it IS leaking past O-ring. My hand is too large to get in there to push in more RTV, but my wife's will fit in so maybe I can talk her into doing it.

Mike & David,
I suggest that you check the fit of other 3.5" center bulkheads, if you don't know about this problem already, the one I recieved with that SD kit definitely has too small an O.D.
I'll make it work somehow, tho. :cool:


Send the unit to me and I'll fix it up for you.

David,

[toppack]

Thanks for the offer David but we got, or rather my wife got some more RTV in the gap. I'll leak test again today and see if that fixed it. No need to mail it, if this works.
But if that bulkhead ever Needs to come Out for any reason, I'll be Sure to send it to you tho, because I would never be able to, unless I used a BFH, and I doubt there would be much left of it. :D LOL :D

[toppack]

Yep, I think the SD is ready for those 300.foot dives Now. :D I'll drink to THAT!

Since I was Lucky enough to get an extra piece of 3.5" pipe and end cap, I think I'll cut off part of it to make the forward servo WTC. I'll permanantly plug the back end of it and use the forward removable end cap for mounting the 4 servos on a tray attached to it and the servo-linkage holes thru it, using some of David's handy-dandy push-rod-seals.
I'll mount the gel-cell battery between the 2 WTC assemblies, to get it closer to CG.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Thanks for the offer David but we got, or rather my wife got some more RTV in the gap. I'll leak test again today and see if that fixed it. No need to mail it, if this works.
But if that bulkhead ever Needs to come Out for any reason, I'll be Sure to send it to you tho, because I would never be able to, unless I used a BFH, and I doubt there would be much left of it. :D LOL :D

Do that. I'll fix it and turn it around quickly for you. Offer stands when/and if you need it serviced.

David,

[toppack]

Okay, Great,
Thanks

[toppack]

Yes, this Large T-class model is the Size for me. It's got enough space to be creative without being cramped. I can Use the size components that are really needed, to do the job, and it's easy to fit them in.
And it will still fit in the back seat of my car, luckily I have a large back seat. :D

Micro-Miniature is Fun but can't beat a large Durable creation for 'Satisfaction of Accomplishment'. :)

I think this model would survive a collision with the Battleship Texas. :D LOL :D

[toppack]

I found the reason that HMS Tally-Ho had 2 different badges.
The Fox (official one) and the Seahorse (unofficial).

See Quote from website in U.K.:
http://www.submariners.co.uk/Dits/Badges/index.php


The most famous Badge though has to be the unofficial Tally-Ho, this shows a sea horse sitting on a sinking merchant ship (presumably Japanese), when a copy of the official badge caught up with the boat in the Far East, the Captain said he didn’t like it and told the subby to send it to Chiang-Kai-Shek, which he did.

[toppack]

I figured out that the T-class hull is going to need a major modification to make it have same shape as original boats.
The superstructure-deck needs to be about 1/2" higher at the flank-torpedo-tube area. That's why it has the incorrect triangle shape to those tubes, which should be round and higher on hull. That section of deck should have a distinct Hump-back apperance, not flat on top like the hull kit is.
See Pics:
I can either: (1) leave it incorrect,(2) cut loose the deck in that area, move it up and arch it, filling in at sides or (3) I can build it up to correct height and shape with bondo or FG-filler, which is what I think I'll do. I can drill large holes in deck, which will lighten it some and give something for it to bond to. I think I can just cut loose the aft end of the area that the tower sits on and bend it up, to get it to the correct angle. Needs to be moved up about 3/16" at rear.
I'll be doing a lot of sculpting fore and aft anyway, so might as well do that also.

We're having Fun Now! :D

[toppack]

Well, I changed my mind and desided on option #2. I cut along a line where holes will be in sides of deck structure. I figured that would be easier and that flexing the deck up in middle, and leaving attached at both ends, would not distort it too much, and it didn't. In fact it improved the gap between upper and lower hull pieces some.
Now the next thing is what to use to fill the gap opened up along almost entire lenght of deck piece. I think I'll put in about 3 small bulkheads inside, to hold it correct height, then lay in a little fiberglass & resin, inside also, to hold it ridgedly in place. Then fill and smooth the outside to proper shape. Then drill about 100 holes along those repaired cuts for the required vents.

[Kazzer]

I figured out that the T-class hull is going to need a major modification to make it have same shape as original boats.
The superstructure-deck needs to be about 1/2" higher at the flank-torpedo-tube area. That's why it has the incorrect triangle shape to those tubes, which should be round and higher on hull. That section of deck should have a distinct Hump-back apperance, not flat on top like the hull kit is.

We're having Fun Now! :D

Where did you get this idea from? Every boat was different. And almost every boat went through a morphing process. I defy anyone to look at any British boat of this period and determine there was ONE style. or one shape of the forward end. I have dozens of photos of T Class where the superstructure is completely level.
If you are going to do one boat, then pick ONE photo of it, and copy that, then claim that moment of time, because I can almost guarantee it will have changed a year later.

[toppack]

All the good pictures I found of T-class, showing that area, are like those I posted above. And none had triangle shaped flank tubes. Most photos are at wrong angle to see the humped shape, In the 2 pics above it is clearly visible, along with round tubes.
I'm trying to make mine look like the majority of them looked during the war, not a later conversion.
And specificaly the way the Tally-ho looked during the war.
If you have a picture of one that did have triangle shaped tubes and flat deck, I'm curious which one it was, and when?
Here's another pic that shows the front of tower base is lower than rear and that the stern is very much Lower, The flank-tubes pointed down slightly as did the upper bow-tubes:

[toppack]

Mike,
I really appreciate the video added to website about Dwayne Hill's T-class. I've been studying it closely.
There are a few things I don't understand about it tho.
The first thing I noticed was the large curved pipes behind (blocking) the flank T-tubes.
Do you have any idea what those are for?
Click Pic:

[toppack]

Dwayne Hill's email address is on the video. I may send a message asking about it, if no one is familiar with the model?

[toppack]

The T-class hull is large, but trying to fit in the rudder and stern-plane linkage arms is tighter than other subs half it's size. I had to grind out about half the resin in that pointed little tail. A couple of places it is thin but I think it will be plenty strong since it's fiberglass/resin.
I think I now have a workable stern linkage setup ready to be installed when the time is right. I still have a lot of cutting, drilling, grinding and sanding first.
The fixed-fins piece did fit perfectly by just cutting slots in side of hull and sliding it thru. :)
I also cut out a portion of the fin piece tho, to have better access to the DP linkage-arm.

[toppack]

Mike,
I don't like to bother you while on vacation, but I still need the drawing for the T-class. I called the office but no one could help me find the status of where it is???
Thanks for the help, if possible, while laying on the beach. I'll drink to THAT!

[toppack]

Well, Looks like I'm going to be buiding this thing without a drawing. :rolleyes:
Maybe I won't screw-up too much without it. :rolleyes:

I can't believe it, I bought a large scale model (1/48th) so I would have plenty of space for bow-plane retract linkage and the torpedo launchers in bow, but it has less room in bow than my Gato model. It is large in middle but very Small at both ends. I've dug out about all the extra resin I can without it being so thin it's transparent. :D
I think I can get everything crammed in there but it's not going to be as easy as I hoped. :(

[Deep Diver]

Hi
I do have copy's of the dockside drawings, for a group 3 boat, just wot do you require? I do not know if I can get P/M on this site, if not then e-mail me on ellisthefirst@hotmail.co.uk

[toppack]

The problem with the drawings is that the last I heard they were ready to be mailed, about 10 days ago. But with Mike 'hiding out' on some island, there's no way to find out who 'Droped the Ball'. :D
It could be on that 'Slow boat from HongKong' and show up sometime, I just don't know???

[toppack]

I obtained a picture of the suspected Caswell delivery service vehicle: :D LOL :D

[Kazzer]

I just HATE it here! Doing my mail on the beach just before we saunter down to the Tiki bar. It's SO nasty, actually rained for two minutes today!

I sent the T plans to Copy Max and they should be shrinking them and mailing them to you Rick. I guess I'll have to bug them when I get back, sorry!

Well, enjoy your day guys. Can you just smell that lovely briny sea?

[toppack]

:rolleyes:I knew my SA remark about the Slow-boat would wake you up. :D
I'm not worrying about the drawing, Too much. ;)
We hope you're Really enjoying your 'Time-off'.
David is doing a good job of Keeping us out of Trouble. I'll drink to THAT!

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

I just HATE it here! Doing my mail on the beach just before we saunter down to the Tiki bar. It's SO nasty, actually rained for two minutes today!

I sent the T plans to Copy Max and they should be shrinking them and mailing them to you Rick. I guess I'll have to bug them when I get back, sorry!

Well, enjoy your day guys. Can you just smell that lovely briny sea?

Enough of this crap ...

... I'm taking a collection: chip in and I'll hire a local hit-man to take Mike out, right there on the beach!

(do professional assassins accept pay-pal?)

David,

[toppack]

Maybe you could arrange for a 100 foot Wave to hit the beach. I'll drink to THAT!
Just tryin' to be Creative! ;)

[toppack]

I just realized why the British T-class Looks so interesting to me. It looks like some pre-historic Sea-creature with large beaked head, with sinister eyes. Really Mean and tough lookin'.
No I'm not Loosin' it! :rolleyes:

[toppack]

I was trying to figure a way for 1 servo to launch 2 torpedos, so I could put 4 torpedos on the 2 available servos, but just don't think it would be reliable. Too much chance of false triggers, with so little servo travel required to trigger them, with that set-up.
So I'll install 2 in the upper bow tubes (Sinister-Eyes), for my first try at this. If I can get 2 to function reliably I'll be Happy. :D
I have designed a way for 1 push/pull rod to both cock and trigger them, with a single small spring in each tube assembly, if the servo has enough torque to overcome the force of the spring. :) I think it will, but don't know until I try.
I'm going to make the launch tubes with 1/2" diameter and the torpedos with 7/16". I've not calculated how close that is to 1/48th scale, but those are available sizes and fit the hull openings well, so they'll have to do.
I've ordered some tubing and springs, so should be able to make some parts soon.I'll drink to THAT!

[toppack]

I could not find a piece of blue-foam large enough to make the flotation for the T-class, so had to use the dang Pink stuff.
I hate Pink submarines so now I'll have to find something to hide it? I doubt I can find a paint that's durable but won't Melt it, so will probably have to use something else?
I was thinking about attaching some black plastic sheet to exposed surfaces with RTV, but there must be a better way?
Maybe a Water based paint would work, but may not be durable enough, I'll try a test sample of that tho.
Anyone have any ideas for a good, easy, inexpensive coating that won't Melt the polystyrene-foam???

[toppack]

I found a picture of a great Tally-ho model.
I didn't realize how popular the Tally-ho was, compaired to other T-class subs, when I started mine.
This one is the only one I've found that is close to the correct Color tho. (altho it's probaby a little too Olive color, at least it looks that way on my monitor)
The aft hull is close to the correct humped shape also.
I would like to know who made this one if anyone has Info about it?
Click Pic:

[toppack]

I'm having to install more bulkheads in the hull, than I thought I would, since these very Long pieces of fiberglass have more flex than I thought they would.
I'm using 3/16" aircraft grade plywood to make them, then attaching and sealing with FG & resin. It's adding weight, but 'Ya gotta do, what ya gotto Do'.
I just didn't expect that it would be necessary for that much bracing.
Trying to keep that Gap even and small, between upper and lower hull pieces, has to be the most difficult thing in this build, tho.

[toppack]

As usual, no mater how many receiver channels I have it's never enough :(, and I have to eliminate something, Since I decided to reserve 2 channels for torpedo-launchers. I guess the bow-planes Retract will be the first to Go.
Unless I can activate 2 servos on 1 receiver channel, for the dive-plane control (both for and aft). I don't think the receiver would care if 2 servos are getting it's output signal? But I've never tried it.
Has anyone tried paralleling 2 servos on 1 channel???

(I don't like running mechanical linkage from stern to bow for DPs, and I have a servo in bow for that already)

If that don't work, the video-camera will the next thing to be eliminated. :rolleyes:

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

A Y-connector between the receiver and the two servos is what you're looking for. but DON'T use the bow and stern planes in unison (unless it's the SEAVIEW).

David,

[toppack]

Okay, I guess the camera will be eliminated then.
That way I can have independent DP control, which will probably make a big difference on this Large model.

Those cameras and their power-connectors are a pain to get water tight anyway, wihout a separate WTC, and I have a camera in my Gato already, for the videos. :)

It would be a rather strange Y-cable, since one servo is about 3 feet away from the other, (1 in Stern WTC and 1 in Bow WTC). :D LOL :D

[toppack]

Hey, I don't have to activate the camera with a E-switch, I can put another toggle-switch in forward end-cap, next to power-switch. I'll want it either off or on when in the water, so that's all that's needed. :)
So, I may have Video afterall. :D

[toppack]

Mike,
In this picture of a British T-class model I've found several errors and problems.
The one I'm curious about tho are the fixed vertical fins, on top of deck, above dive-planes.
I don't think any of the T-class subs had these but it's difficult to tell since in all pics the DPs are in up position. I saw a picture of a S-class that appeared to have them. Did all S-class have those short fixed vertical fins? And maybe some of the T-class?
Very strange that they were needed there, unless they were a safety-bump-stop for the bow-planes ???
Click Pic:

[Kazzer]

I think their correct name is 'dive plane guards'. I've seen them on all S & T Class earlier boats, but when they were streamlined, they were all removed.
I made mine from brass sheet.

[toppack]

Okay Thanks,
I guess I'll put them on. I was going to make that area between them removable anyway, to inspect T-launcher triggers, so the fins will be handy to use as handles when removing and installing it. :)

[toppack]

After studying pictures of Tally-ho more closely, I've desided that she did Not have DP guard fins. I don't think any of the Group-3 T-class subs did.
So now I can't deside if I Need the handles or not ???? :confused:
(I could design some other way to remove it.)
There's Always some History-Changing Decision to be Made! Censored

[toppack]

I got the scale 3/16"-shaft propellers for the T-class. Wow, they look Small on the 1/48th hull.
I can certainly see why the original boats were so Slow, having to run props that undersized.
But I'm not building a speed boat
and the Raboesch props are very high quality, as usual. :)

[toppack]

I was able to route the prop shafts directly to flex couplings attached to 3.5" SD.
I had to relocate the fairing holes thru hull tho, by sanding away the fairing almost completely and using the handy-dandy RepairItQuik sculpting epoxy I got from Caswell to reconstruct them. They only protrude from hull about a 1/8" more than they did. I used the epoxy both inside and outside to hold stuffing-tubes in place.
Everything at shafts fits and looks great now. :)

I also used the epoxy to modify the forward torpedo-tube door areas, since they were not realistic looking at all and needed major changes.

That epoxy is Great stuff! :)

[Kazzer]

I also used the epoxy to modify the forward torpedo-tube door areas, since they were not realistic looking at all and needed major changes.

That epoxy is Great stuff! :)


Which epoxy Rick? Quickwood? That's my favorite!

As for the speed of the boat, scale it down from the original spec. I figure it should run at about 1.5-2 mph - a slow walk. My S Class looked pretty good in the water at that speed - very realistic. They need a hell of a turning circle though. I may cheat and pop a small Raboesh bow thruster in to help on the turns! :o

[toppack]

I used RepairItQuik. You must have gotten all the Quickwood, mine's still on backorder?
I've already increased the size of the rudder, maybe that will help some with the turning radius.
I increase the rudder area about 25% from scale, on all my ship models, doing the same on the subs also. I may just tie a frying-pan on the tail of this one tho! :D

[toppack]

Well, i found out that my recievers do NOT like for two servos to be connected in parallel on one channel. Tried 3 recievers.
As soon as I connect up the 2nd one all the servos start 'Dancing the Jig'. :confused:
I put my O-scope on one of the other channels to monitor it and there were strange intermittent pulses everywhere.
Since I need to reverse one of the servos anyway, I'll see if the reversing-circuit isolates them so they won't 'Start having a Dance contest'. I'll need to order one so will have to wait to check it out.
I've seen Y-cables with a reverser in one leg already, I'll try to find one. I think Tower-Hobbies used to sell them.
If that don't fix it, it's gonna be in a 'world of hurt'. :rolleyes:

[toppack]

I found the yellow one at Tower and the black one on eBay for half price.
I like the connector layout of the black one better, so I ordered 2 of those.
Has anyone used either of these Y-cable Reversers?
Click Pic:

[toppack]

Well, No help from you guys, so looks like 'I'm treading a New Path' .:rolleyes:
I'm having Fun Now! I'll drink to THAT!

[toppack]

Opto-Isolated to eliminate radio noise. Operates 2 devices from one channel. Independently turn on and off 2 devices up to 20 volts @ 4 amps. Selectable fail-safe feature. Selectable momentary or latching feature for each device


If you are suggesting an E-switch to be used to solve my problem, that is a 'Completely Different' thing.
E-switches are for turning devices on/off (such as lights, pump-motors, etc.). It's just a remotely actvated Switch.
I'm trying to connect 2 servos to 1 reciever channel, for mechanical activation of 2 linkage arms at opposite ends of the sub. I had to do it that way since I ran out of reciever channels for everything I wanted to put into model.
I'm hopeing the reverser circuit will isolate it the same as the E-switches do.

Caswell sells a very good E-switch called MERS for single device and the ES-2 for 2 devices on same channel.
I did order and recieved my first ES-2 from them. I bench tested it today and it's working great. :) I'll try it in the SD tomorrow.

[toppack]

I found another type servo reverser. It's sort of the Cadillac model, made by Futaba. It also has a signal-noise filter circuit, which i think I'll need.
It's larger than the others but I have enough space in the 3.5" SD.
I got one on eBay at a low price so thought I'd give it a try also.
Click Pic:

[toppack]

Jittery servos sure do draw a lot of current.
I'm glad I put a good heat-sink on the voltage-regulator in forward WTC.
While trying to trouble-shoot the problem it was getting Very Hot, because of the excess current.

[toppack]

It's just one problem after the other. :eek: :mad:
I got the small black servo reversers, I tried one and it worked but it did not stop the jitter problems, but after trying many things I found that by switching functions of clannels 5 and 6, the problem went away. Which is very strange! :confused:
I then noticed that one of the propulsion motors output shaft was not turning. I found that the motor was turning tho, so I took appart the gear-reduction assembly on it and fount that it had a loose set screw in gear on motor shaft.
After getting it all back together i found that the vent/blow servo (ch-1) would Not work now. It seemed that for some reason that reciever channel or it's connector had now quit, so I switched everything over to another reciever.
Now everthing worked including the vent/blow servo, except now the snort pump would not turn off, which is on an E-switch(ch-7).
That was the last straw, I couldn't take any more Fun for tonight.:(

[Kazzer]

It's just one problem after the other. :eek: :mad:

That was the last straw, I couldn't take any more Fun for tonight.:(

Phew! I thought I was the only one who suffered from this stuff!

There has to be a better way!

But, where I was three years ago, BECs were not incorporated into ESCs, ESCs were klunky, failsafes were a mess, 72 mhz or 75 who cared. RCABS RCABS_R????? Why would an 'expert' sell me a 'stuffing box' for a submarine drive shaft?

What a mess. How could so few, make so much chaos?

Onward gentlemen! We have work to do!

[toppack]

Surprize! Surprize! :D
Today all reciever channels are doing what they're supposed to. I guess the Grimlins had enough fun with me yesterday and desided to take the day off. ;)
I'm still getting a little servo jitter when the drive motors are running but that seems to be normal with all the electronics wadded up in those tight little SDs.
I try to route the ESC and motor wires away from everything else, but in that tight space they sometime end up close to each other, causing cross-talk signals, which is what I think the problem is.
I Hate having to run the antenna wire past the motors, but it has to go out the same end-cap. I may try to shield the antenna (with grounded shield sleeve) inside SD and see if that helps any?

I never had all these problems with my Surface Ships! :)

[VanguardUK]

Mike,
In this picture of a British T-class model I've found several errors and problems.
The one I'm curious about tho are the fixed vertical fins, on top of deck, above dive-planes.
I don't think any of the T-class subs had these but it's difficult to tell since in all pics the DPs are in up position. I saw a picture of a S-class that appeared to have them. Did all S-class have those short fixed vertical fins? And maybe some of the T-class?
Very strange that they were needed there, unless they were a safety-bump-stop for the bow-planes ???
Click Pic:

That's my old boat

[toppack]

That's my old boat

Hello, VanguardUK
Tell us more about it. Do you still have it?
What's your opinon about the bow Dive-plane guard fins on top of bow deck?
The bow dive-planes appear to be fixed (not movable) is that true?
I see that changes were made to upper bow torpedo-tubes. Did you make operational torpedos for it?
I noticed that it's aft deck is curved more (hump-backed as originals were) than the hull I purchased. Did you modify it to get that shape, as I did with mine, or is it a different version of that hull kit (Metcalf, MbyD, etc.)?
I was wondering about the large round hole in side of superstructure, port side forward of tower?
What type flotation and ballast system does it have?
How did you deside on that shade of green color?
Do you have other pictures you could post?
As you can see I have a lot of questions and answers have been difficult to find. :)
Any other suggestions on how to make mine more realistic in appearance and operation will be appreciated?
Thanks, and I'm sorry about the negative comment about your model.

[Deep Diver]

Hi
Have just had a look at the photos of the Truculent when they lifted her off the seabead, no sign of any D/P guards or of any hole on the port side, I think John made a mistake with this as that is about were the forward torpedo hatch and the loading derrick is located, will have a look at my drawings later to-day.

[VanguardUK]

I was lucky enough to meet a bloke who served on Tallyho at the end of the war - he was a member of out club.

I also had a book called "The Hunting Submarine -The fighting Life of HMS Tallyho" i think & it was an account of Tallyho's operational career in the Pacific, in it was refernce to her being painted green at that time - hence the colour.

With regard to the hull, this was an original Darnell hull, the only thing I altered was the Gun turret & infilled the Fwd tubes to give the appearance of being loaded - these would have been loaded externally. I also scratch built the guns & Masts.

I built this boat about 7 years ago & foolishly sold it on, If you're reading this Pete Uney - I want it back!

I fitted it out with a Compressor system, inflating a bag in the central wet section with air stored in a can in the bow- if I was re doing it I would fit a water pump system.

She was very stable & I never bothered linking up the Fore' planes, I fitted the guards based on pictures from the book, if I can find it, I will scan some images & post them.


There was also some damage done to the Port side in a collision with a Jap freighter & additional plating was welded on top of the hull - nice detail touch!

Check out this link

http://www.submariners.co.uk/Dits/Articles/tallyho.php

[toppack]

I also had a book called "The Hunting Submarine -The fighting Life of HMS Tallyho" i think & it was an account of Tallyho's operational career in the Pacific, in it was refernce to her being painted green at that time - hence the colour.

With regard to the hull, this was an original Darnell hull, the only thing I altered was the Gun turret & infilled the Fwd tubes to give the appearance of being loaded - these would have been loaded externally.

Yes, I have that very Good book also and I talked about it and the green color earlier, somewhere on this forum, I think in this thread. Mike and I were trying to determine what shade of green it actually was. Mike contacted someone, in the UK I think, and determined it should be more of a Hunter-green.

Thanks for the very Interesting Info about your Tally-ho.
Any other suggestions would be appreciated, since I've really just started mine.

[toppack]

Hi
Have just had a look at the photos of the Truculent when they lifted her off the seabead, no sign of any D/P guards or of any hole on the port side, I think John made a mistake with this as that is about were the forward torpedo hatch and the loading derrick is located, will have a look at my drawings later to-day.

Very Interesting,
Are those pictures in a form that could be posted on forum?

Yes, the the torpedo loading-derrick mounts above that area, thru a hatch in top of deck, not thru side.

I still have not gotten my drawings. :rolleyes: Maybe someday Mike will quit Playin'-Around and find it for me? I hope so?

[Kazzer]

I still have not gotten my drawings. :rolleyes: Maybe someday Mike will quit Playin'-Around and find it for me? I hope so?


Rick


I asked Copy Max to forward the scaled drawings to you. But they told me that had a problem with re-scaling the scan. It's probably not going to happen in an exact scale, and you really do need this drawing. I should just mail you my original?

[Kazzer]

Mike and I were trying to determine what shade of green it actually was. Mike contacted someone, in the UK I think, and determined it should be more of a Hunter-green.



I actually know what the green color was, the 1st lieutenant Steve Jenner, of my dad's boat HMS Sibyl, told me a couple of years ago. It was BRUNSWICK GREEN. However, Jenner (he's 85) said that it depended what color was available in the depot ship on the day the captain decided he wanted a paint job. In the Far East the very dark Brunswick Green was used, but I can't say for sure that this color was used anywhere else. I don't think it was used in the Atlantic, North Sea or the Med.

[toppack]

Any help on getting a drawing would be appreciated, scale size would be good but not necessary, Thanks

Well Heck, Now You've got me Unsure, of what Color to use, Again.
I have found good color samples of Brunswick green, tho, and it does look correct.
The Tally-ho was in Far-east and in B&W pics it does seem to be a Dark color.
I'll just get a color that I Like!, that sort of looks correct. :)

[Deep Diver]

Hi
As I have a set of dock yard drawings in 1/48 scale so P/M me and I will see if I can get you a copy and send them to you

[Kazzer]

Hi! DeepSea

Here is a low res scan of what I have for the T Class, are they the same as yours?

[Deep Diver]

Hi Kazzer
No but they look like the ones from MAP Plans service,I have a copy of it in the corner of my office, the ones that I have came from Barrow Dock Yard, they also did a photo service so the you could get a photo of the boat as she was on the slipway.
All the best Deep Diver

[toppack]

I found this T-class plan, on xlistplans website in UK.
This may be what's left of the 'MAP Plans Service' stuff?
But not much Info available on website?
I don't think it includes hull contour (bulkhead) drawings?

http://www.xlistplans.demon.co.uk/submarin.htm

[toppack]

Has anyone mailed a Drawing yet?
I hate to be a Pest about this, but I'm Diein' here guys!

[VanguardUK]

Has anyone mailed a Drawing yet?
I hate to be a Pest about this, but I'm Diein' here guys!

pm me your address & I'll see if i can dig out my plans & I'll send them over the water to you.

[toppack]

pm me your address & I'll see if i can dig out my plans & I'll send them over the water to you.

I Did! It was 2 days ago that I sent it in PM. :confused:
It should be indicated on top right of forum page.
I will try sending it again.

Thank you very much,

[toppack]

Another error in the construction of the fiberglass cover is that the superstructure area is Way too wide just forward of the tower, but I can't figure out an easy way to correct that, so I guess it will have to stay that way. :(
Whoever redid the cover mold needs another Whoopen! Crack That WHip

The narrow area is visible in this pic:

[VanguardUK]

This is only on some later modified boats

[Kazzer]

Another error in the construction of the fiberglass cover is that the superstructure area is Way too wide just forward of the tower, but I can't figure out an easy way to correct that, so I guess it will have to stay that way. :(
Whoever redid the cover mold needs another Whoopen! Crack That WHip

The narrow area is visible in this pic:


Rick! You must remember that these boats morphed weekly. You need to take ONE boat, and one photo of it and stick to that, otherwise you'll end up with a pigs ear of a mess. No two boats were the same by the time the war was finished, and after that, they went into 'Slippery T mode' .
To say the upper cover is wrong is incorrect.

So, I ask you, which model are you trying to replicate?

[toppack]

What I'm saying is that it's not correct for both Group 2 or 3 boats, that I have pictures and drawings of. Group 1 boats have even More differences from model cover than 2 & 3 do.
I'm modeling the Tally-ho, which is a Group 3, and similar to other group 2s & 3s in those areas.
I posted that picture since shape of forward deck is very easy to see, but others have same shape.
Altho obvious, the forward deck error is not as bad as the aft deck error.
I can certainly see why they did it. The mold would be much more difficult to make if they shaped those areas correctly, (more curved areas and surface direction changes would be needed).
Sorry, I just feel they are obvious errors that need to be noted.
With work most mold errors can be fixed tho and it's been fun doing it, where I can. :)

Do you know why they changed the cover mold?
Evidently the original Darnell mold was more correct in those areas.

[Deep Diver]

Re drawings i hope to get down to the copy shop at the end of the month, will let evey one know the cost for copys, then try and send them out to any ony that needs a copy.

[toppack]

Re drawings i hope to get down to the copy shop at the end of the month, will let evey one know the cost for copys, then try and send them out to any ony that needs a copy.

Sounds good!
But the problem is, I was ready to start cutting holes and making parts, last week.
So it may be too late to make changes, if it's a month or more before I get the drawing. :o
Are your drawings of an actual T-class or of a model?

Mike,
I've determined the drawing file you sent was made for or from a 'model' someone made, not an actual T-class. It only shows the size, shape and location of his models parts.
It may have been made from the model pictured below: (since drawing shows the exhaust-pipe looking tubes that are incorrectly on this model)

It's starting to get very frustrating trying to get accurate Information about the Real boat details. :rolleyes:

[toppack]

I can't figure out a good way to make the deck-grills (or gratings). I certainly don't want to cut out each of the Many louvered slots for them, so I'm thinking about cutting out large holes, milling the edges of the holes to make a small ledge around them and then epoxying in stainless-steel screen-wire, which is sturdy and I have already. The FG is thick enough, so making the ledges should not be much of a problem.
This should also provide more than enough deck vents for vent/blow action.
I don't want to just paint them on.
Anyone have suggestions of how to simulate those many gratings?
Thanks,
Pic is part of drawing showing some of deck grating:

[Deep Diver]

My Drawings are from the yard marked Barrow Dockyard,

[Deep Diver]

Sorry one more thing I did a master grating, then made a rubber copey so I could make as meny as needed

[VanguardUK]

I can't figure out a good way to make the deck-grills (or gratings). I certainly don't want to cut out each of the Many louvered slots for them, so I'm thinking about cutting out large holes, milling the edges of the holes to make a small ledge around them and then epoxying in stainless-steel screen-wire, which is sturdy and I have already. The FG is thick enough, so making the ledges should not be much of a problem.
This should also provide more than enough deck vents for vent/blow action.
I don't want to just paint them on.
Anyone have suggestions of how to simulate those many gratings?
Thanks,
Pic is part of drawing showing some of deck grating:

This is how I made mine, Brass mesh overlaid with Evergreen Strut, not 100% authentic but looked very effective & served to vent the casing when diving,

[toppack]

This is how I made mine, Brass mesh overlaid with Evergreen Strut, not 100% authentic but looked very effective & served to vent the casing when diving,

Looks great, that's similar to my idea. I still need to get something to make the overlay strips tho. They need to be sturdy but very thin. I was considering using brass for overlay since I think it's available in thinner strips.
I hope I can make mine look that good.

Oh Man, Look at all those little holes I need to drill, in perfect rows no less! :eek:
The present mold puts in only some of the dimples to indicate where all those holes should be.
Another error in the new mold! :(

[toppack]

My Drawings are from the yard marked Barrow Dockyard,

Does that mean they were made like a Real T-class (it sounds like it does)
or from some one's model?

[VanguardUK]

Here's a close up of the bow, again copied from a photo from the book.

[toppack]

There's a lot of Big holes in 'er deck Now!
If the Ghost of the guys that designed the original come across the pond to haunt me and let me know that I did them all wrong, I'll fill in the holes and redo them, but Otherwise there stayin' the way they are. :D LOL
Milling the ledge around them all was not as difficult as I thought.
I'm cutting bits of SS-screen now to plug those holes.
I found some brass strip for grating edgeing overlay. :)

[Kazzer]

There's a lot of Big holes in 'er deck Now!
If the Ghost of the guys that designed the original come across the pond to haunt me and let me know that I did them all wrong, I'll fill in the holes and redo them, but Otherwise there stayin' the way they are. :D LOL
Milling the ledge around them all was not as difficult as I thought.
I'm cutting bits of SS-screen now to plug those holes.
I found some brass strip for grating edging overlay. :)

I work on the philosophy that at 20 feet out, no one will see that anyway, so why worry about those details!

How about posting some picture of this Limey monster you're doing Rick?

[toppack]

I work on the philosophy that at 20 feet out, no one will see that anyway, so why worry about those details!

How about posting some picture of this Limey monster you're doing Rick?

But *I* will see it! :D

I'll make some 'work in progress' pics.

[toppack]

Work in progress Pictures: (Limey monster)
1st pic launch tubes fabrication is started, in removable bow top
2nd pic ledges around holes are visible that screen will fit onto
2 of the holes have screen laying in them (8 screens have been cut, with only one cut finger).
4th pic shows shaft-struts/tubes and stern torpedo-tube
the last pic you can see 3 of bulkheads added to hull, for regidity, battery bracing and SD seats
I'll start drilling those Hundreds of small holes in deck next. :rolleyes:

[Deep Diver]

Re Drawings, sorry that I have not got back sooner,my drawings came from the dock yard and are as used by them,

[VanguardUK]

You're probably already aware of this, but you will need a substantial amount of lead in the Keel to stop her rolling over. - I actuaully had a drop keel fitted on the outside & moulded in with body filler.

[toppack]

Re Drawings, sorry that I have not got back sooner,my drawings came from the dock yard and are as used by them,

Okay, Great
I hope to get a copy soon.
Thanks,

[toppack]

You're probably already aware of this, but you will need a substantial amount of lead in the Keel to stop her rolling over. - I actuaully had a drop keel fitted on the outside & moulded in with body filler.

Yes, I have a square lead bar, that fits in keel, already.
And more will be add as needed. They will be held in with RTV.
The bars also hold down the velcro straps which secure the SD.
I also already have flotation foam pieces cut that fit in hull.

I'm hopeing I won't need an external weight but I'll keep that in mind as an option.
Thanks,

[toppack]

I'll start drilling those Hundreds of small holes in deck next. :rolleyes:

Correction!
There were Not 'Hundreds' of small holes, There were *Thousands*. (at least it seemed like it)
My Dremel tool was getting Too Hot, so I had to quit before finishing. Devilish
Almost got 'em tho. :)

[VanguardUK]

One thing to bear in mind - air will struggle to vent through these holes - to small, i found that a little bit of forward motion when diving moved any trapped air out through the stern tubes.

[toppack]

Yes, I figured the little ones were there 'Only for Show', not to be considered good vents.

I had planed to put a hatch (door) on 9 of the T-tubes, including the 3 stern tubes, sealing them. I have some of the door-plugs partially made already.
That may be a good idea to leave some open, a least with a hole there somewhere, if I put in the doors. But I was thinking the large screen covered holes in deck will be enough vents in cover? Do you Not think so?
There Is a large ballast tank in this SD, and When she Blows she's Really gonna Blow. :) So I could be wrong?
Thanks for the Info,

[toppack]

I'm working on the conning-tower now.
I started to list all the errors made in that casting. :eek:
But desided it would take too long to make a list and would be better to spend that time fixing some of them. :D
Let's just say it needs Extensive Modification and Additions to it's basic shape. Censored
I think with enough resin and epoxy-putty I can get it close to correct. The gun shield piece is useless tho, I'll have to start over completely on it.
I certainly am glad I have my portable belt-sander, tho. It's saving a lot of time and effort. :)

[VanguardUK]

I rebuilt the Gun mounting, scratched both guns & fitted the area out from Pictures - again from the book - with hatches, wheels etc.

The upper casing WILL hold onto the air, it will even trap under the grates, but if you move away from the mytth that boats always dive static as seems to be the obsession these days, you should have no worries.

Under the water mine handled well - at slow (scale) speeds, but the best bit was just before she completely submerged, the wake looked awesome!

[toppack]

Yes, to me Dynamic dives are much more Impressive, then go Static when she's under.
Of course you need a lot of 'Running Room' for large models like the T-class. :D

I'll try it first with the tube-doors on, and see how it goes. I can always drill them out, if needed.

[toppack]

I was trying to decide what to use to fabricate the voice-tube that goes from bridge to 4" gun, that was used on many T-class subs. But when looking at pic of Tally-ho I see that she did Not have one. It probably got shot off or knocked off during their many encounters with the enemy.
Then I remembered that in the book they talked about the gunners not being able to hear anyone on the bridge during battle.
So that will save time, not having to make those delicate parts.
I also see that she did not have a Air-guard-radar-antenna that many of them had, in forward bridge area, which was also noted in book. Another delicate part not needed. :)
I'm definitely going to add the Victory-flag.
Click Pic:

[Kazzer]

I was trying to decide what to use to fabricate the voice-tube that goes from bridge to 4" gun, that was used on many T-class subs. But when looking at pic of Tally-ho I see that she did Not have one. It probably got shot off or knocked off during their many encounters with the enemy.


A lot of S class boats did not have that voice tube by design. According to Stephen Jenner (1st Lt HMS Sibyl) these sorts of things were left entirely to the individual captain who would request modifications to his boat after each patrol. He could even choose the paint job, if they had that color in the depot ship.

I think that by the end of the war, these guys were also beginning to realise that all this crap strapped to the hull caused a lot of noise in the water and made them easily detectable, and so started to shed all sorts of things, hence the advent of The Slippery T class.

[toppack]

Very Interesting.


I think that by the end of the war, these guys were also beginning to realise that all this crap strapped to the hull caused a lot of noise in the water and made them easily detectable, and so started to shed all sorts of things, hence the advent of The Slippery T class.
Yes, that's true, but when making them 'slippery' they made them Less Interesting in appearance. They then started to be the Boring dildo lookin' tubes that modern subs are. :D LOL :D

Should I go put my Helmit on, after that statement? :D

[Kazzer]

Very Interesting.


Yes, that's true, but when making them 'slippery' they made them Less Interesting in appearance. They then started to be the Boring dildo lookin' tubes that modern subs are.


I agree, I much prefer the WWII originals - they look 'dangerous' and fearsome.

[toppack]

There's another detail I can't decide about? :confused:
Should I install periscopes in Up position or Down?
I noticed most models have them Up but with actual WW2 subs they were not up much of the time, only for short periods.
I plan to route the Snort-intake tube and the camera-Xmitter antenna up thru them but there should enough height with just the base-tubes, I think?
But will it look complete and finished with them down?
:confused: :confused:

[toppack]

VanguardUK,
I just noticed that you did not have periscopes up on your Tally-ho and it looked Great that way, so I think I'll leave them off also. :)
Hey, I can go under lower Bridges that way. :D LOL :D
As long as it clears the Jolly-Roger Flag-pole, that is! ;)
See pic:
(2nd pic is of another T-class model with them Up)
(3rd is Tally-ho, just back from patrol)

[toppack]

No opinions on periscopes Up or Down huh?
Okay, I'll just do it MY way, but I don't want any complaining later. :D LOL :D

[VanguardUK]

My periscopes were mounted on Corks & removable from below, on the surface the scope falls down but as you dive the buoyancy of the cork forces it to rise - this is an old trick that i was told about when I first started in Sub Building.
I like to ruin my boats at PD so always have at least one scope.

I found a few more pic's of my old T so here you go.

[toppack]

Great Info and pics.
Really like the guns!
I don't think I can do that with my periscopes, since they're being used for air-tube and antenna holders, and I think they would hit the SD when coming down (so not much travel), but that's a great idea. :)
I about have the tower assembled now, except for railings and hand-holds.
I'll start on the guns next.

[VanguardUK]

Some More..........Really shouldnt have sold this one!

[toppack]

Yes, that was a Keeper!

I noticed it appears to be black color and addition of the flag in these pics.
Is this after a Overhaul? ;)

[VanguardUK]

No, the Keel is Dark grey, Upper works Green.

[VanguardUK]

Saw this on a website & thought it may be of use
http://www.dockmuseum.org.uk/archive/browser.asp?deepcriteria=Submarine&searchtype=1

[toppack]

Interesting photo collection!
I had not found that website.
Thanks,

[toppack]

I have a terminology question. What is the correct name for the D shaped holes in side of tower and super-structure, used as a Ladder, on exterior, from tower and deck, on the T-class? Many ships and boats have them.
Would just calling them 'Ladder cutouts' or 'a cutout-ladder' be correct?
Surely some of you Ol'-Salts know what they're called? ;)
My guess is that there are at least 2 names for them, the official and slang names?
See pic of T-class tower (they're down side of tower and in shield walls, forward of tower):
I was putting them into my model, but then realized I did not know what to call them, when my wife asked what those holes were for?

[toppack]

I guess I'll just call them 'Monkey-Ladders'. :rolleyes:

[Kazzer]

I guess I'll just call them 'Monkey-Ladders'. :rolleyes:


Ask the lads over here --- http://www.submariners.co.uk/index.php

[toppack]

Good Idea Mike.
I sent my question across the Pond. ;)
My first post on that site, We will see what happens.:rolleyes:

[toppack]

No Joy, on getting a proper name for the ladders.
I suppose I'll just call them 'Ladders' ;)
Another Historical Mystery, Lost in Time! :D

[toppack]

Another area of Confusion on the T-class is the engine-Exhaust. I've noticed a large variety in their location and appearance, on other models.
I think they are the protrusions that lay flat on upper exterior of saddle-tanks, just aft of the flank torpedo-tubes?
I've not been able to find a good picture so I'll be guessing like everyone else does. :D
I Still have not determined where the actual exhaust-Ports are, tho, since the bottom end of that structure appears to be sealed against saddle-tank? :confused:

[toppack]

The things I'm trying to find out about are visible in center of this picture, on hull below the ADF antenna. I've been told by a British submariner that they may not be Exhaust, but he was not sure what they are.

[Kazzer]

If I'm looking at the same thing you are looking at (that's a lousy photo by the way) then those are torpedo tubes.

[toppack]

If I'm looking at the same thing you are looking at (that's a lousy photo by the way) then those are torpedo tubes.

:D LOL
Mike, as I stated previously, it's the thing on hull, *aft of torpedo-tube*, directly below ADF antenna.
Yes, when lousy photos are all we have to work with, it makes things very difficult.
I used that pic since the item in question is almost in center of pic.
I've already dabed on some putty and carved it to shape (what I think is a correct shape). There's just some things I'll have to guesstamate. :)

[toppack]

I just noticed that I made the rank of 'Rear Admiral'.
I started to make old jokes about the Rear part, but decided not to. Instead I'll just say, 'I deserve it',
'Thank'u varry Muuch'.:D

[toppack]

I've drilled 15ea large 5/16" holes in botton of keel, 36ea 3/16" holes in bottom of saddle-tanks, 8ea 3/16" holes in bottom of bow, 4ea 3/16" between prop-shafts and 48ea sloted holes at bow tubes. :eek:
And that's just the holes in the lower hull.
I haven't attempted a count of the hundreds of holes in and around the deck area and tower, yet. ;)
I think it will Sink Now! :D

This still seems very Strange to me, since I've been building 'surface ships' all my life.:)
Note: I still can't call them 'Targets' yet. :D

[VanguardUK]

There are over 1000 holes in the Deck but at least it's not a type VII!!:)

[toppack]

There are over 1000 holes in the Deck :)

I'll probably Not count all the little holes in deck, that will be a lot less fun than it was drilling them. :D

Now if I can get the gap closed between upper & lower hull pieces, so it won't be so Obvious, I'll have the really difficult parts of this model Completed. ;)

[Kazzer]

I've drilled 15ea large 5/16" holes in botton of keel,


Hmmm! Pity about that, you'll probably need to fill the entire keel with lead shot & epoxy etc. then re-drill it. Its a big boat and needs a good bit of low lying ballast. If I ever did one again, I'd drill those holes to the side of the keel.

[toppack]

I'm grinding groves around both sides and under of the lead bars, for water passages to holes in bottom of keel. Held in with RTV. There's also groves in them for the SD velcro-strap hold-downs.
I figured holes in sides of keel, or large holes in bottom of hull, would look too strange, so decided to do the extra work to the lead-ballast bars. Since the lead is so soft the shaping goes very quickly.
I'm using long lead bars, that I had already, instead of shot and epoxy, so they are machinable and adjustable. Much more versatile that way.
I did it that way in the Gato, on a smaller scale of course, and it worked Great. :)

[toppack]

Well, I've determined that the toroedos need to be less than 5" long, to fit the available space for the launch tubes and compressed spring length. Which is close to scale length I think?
Sure going to be a tight fit using a AAA battery, I may have to go with AAAA batteries instead, but I'll try the AAAs first.
I have the trigger assemblies designed and I've started making parts. I have the launch-tube mountings in hull completed. They're held in with pins so they can be removed easily.

[VanguardUK]

Hmmm! Pity about that, you'll probably need to fill the entire keel with lead shot & epoxy etc. then re-drill it. Its a big boat and needs a good bit of low lying ballast. If I ever did one again, I'd drill those holes to the side of the keel.

I fitted a 1/2 inch square x 2 foot long false lead keel onto mine & faired the ends in with filler, once painted you coudln't notice it.

[toppack]

The problem I have with a permanently attached and positioned ballast-weight is determining exactly where it needs to be, before the model is completed with everything installed?
(When working with a new unknown hull design)
I like to have the ballast weight adjustable when possible.
Especially since I don't know yet how large and heavy a battery I can use in it, which will be a large part of the weight balance.

[toppack]

For such a large model as the T-class, it's really surprizing how Little space is available in stern for rudder-arm and in upper-bow for torpedo-tubes. :eek:
I've had to modify my original design of the tubes several times, to try to get everything to fit.
I now think I have a working design, tho. :)

[toppack]

Looks like I'll need to assemble at least one torpedo, before I can complete the launch-tube assembly, so I can be sure to locate the trigger-pins and turn-off-magnets in the correct locations, in the tubes.
I was hopeing to be able to complete the model and test it before taking the time to do the torpedos, but can't do it that way and still make sure everything lines-up properly. :rolleyes: Since the tubes assembly needs to be in model before I can finish it.
The bow-planes mounting-bracket is also a hold-down for rear of launch-tubes, which saved space and weight, and it acts as guide for trigger linkage rods also.

[toppack]

Well, I got my first prototype torpedo assembled and sealed, but there was a little problem, It Doesn't Float! :(
With that AAA battery installed, it sinks like a rock. :D

Oh well, as they say, 'Back to the drawing board'. :rolleyes:

[VanguardUK]

Well, I got my first prototype torpedo assembled and sealed, but there was a little problem, It Doesn't Float! :(
With that AAA battery installed, it sinks like a rock. :D

Oh well, as they say, 'Back to the drawing board'. :rolleyes:
Any pictures

[toppack]

Nope, I don't like to take pictures of my Failed designs. :D LOL
I need to find a design that works well, first. ;)
Then I'll take pics. :)
I think I'll work on hull details some more, and think about this torpedo 'thing' a while.
;)
I've got to make them lighter somehow, I'll try AAAA battery next tho, that should help.

[toppack]

While waiting for Mike to find some 'Floating Tubing', I decided to work on the Base/stand for the T-class.
I had put a coat of Mahogany stain and then a coat of clear varnish, but for some reason the varnish dried lumpy. I guess it's getting old, like everything else around here. :rolleyes:
Then when I tried to sand it I wasn't careful enough and sanded thru the stain along some edges. What a mess!
Now I've put on more stain to try to fix it. I'm waiting for that to dry now.
I suppose I have Plenty of time tho, since I'm Waiting for Mike. ;)

[toppack]

I found and ordered some more 7/16" plastic tube, that is supposed to be thinner walled and lighter.
Hopefully this will to the job. I'll drink to THAT!
I rechecked the weight of the AAA battery and it really is only .43 ounces (or 12.2 grams) I thought I may have made a mistake on that weight but that's what I had before. The battery is only thing in it that is a little heavy, if you can call .43 ounces Heavy. :D

[Kazzer]

While waiting for Mike to find some 'Floating Tubing', ---------------
I suppose I have Plenty of time tho, since I'm Waiting for Mike. ;)

You'll be waiting a long time!

[toppack]

Looks like I'll have working torpedos using the 7/16" plastic fish-tank Tubing and AAAA NiCd battery. The AAA batteries are a little too large diameter (fits too tight) and too heavy. This plastic tubing does not float but only takes 1 little air-bubble to make it float, since it's so light. It's plenty strong and ridged, tho.
Got to design and fabricate the magnetically activated switches next, which may be the most difficult parts to make function properly.

I have all the flotation-foam installed in the hull. Since the SLA battery I'm using weighs over 6.pounds, I won't need much lead weight in the keel. It seemed fairly stable and level, in the hot-tub, but have not tested it yet with everything assembled.

[toppack]

I won't need much lead weight in the keel. It seemed fairly stable and level, in the hot-tub, but have not tested it yet with everything assembled.

The first test indications were Very Wrong! When I got everything installed 'she Rolled lake a dead whale'. :eek:
Surprizing what the weight of motors and servos can do. :( (about 45 deg roll)
So, In go the lead bars now and I'll see how it does.
Sure hope I don't have to hang any lead on outside of keel! :confused:

[VanguardUK]

The first test indications were Very Wrong! When I got everything installed 'she Rolled lake a dead whale'. :eek:
:confused:

Told you - You no Listen!:D

[toppack]

Told you - You no Listen!:D
Yep, 'I Believe You' Now! :D LOL :D
How far down did your external weight hang below the keel? Do you remember how much lead (weight) you had inside and outside of keel?
Do you have pictures of internal and external ballast weights?

[Kazzer]

Told you - You no Listen!:D

Yes, he no listen!:D



Originally Posted by toppack http://forum.sub-driver.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.sub-driver.com/showthread.php?p=3629#post3629)
I've drilled 15ea large 5/16" holes in botton of keel,
Kazzer said -
Hmmm! Pity about that, you'll probably need to fill the entire keel with lead shot & epoxy etc. then re-drill it. Its a big boat and needs a good bit of low lying ballast. If I ever did one again, I'd drill those holes to the side of the keel.
15 x 5/16" holes will make a huge difference in the stability. So, fill 'em in with lead/shot etc.

The further away the lead is from the center of gravity, (I think that would usually be the waterline?) the more effect it will have, so it's vital to pack as much into the keel as possible. Also consider making dive plane guards from aluminum. An ounce or two saved above the waterline now becomes a real priority.

[toppack]

Yep, I'm also thinking I may have to Loose the 6. lb battery and use a lighter smaller one, with more lead at keel instead, to get that weight Lower in the hull.
I'll experiment with different things and see what works best.

[toppack]

It was the Big Honkin' 6.lb Battery that was causing the Roll problem. I replaced it with about 1 lb. of lead and she floated 'proud and tall'.
Now I need to find a Smaller 12.v that don't mind the wet, that will lay flat over the keel. I have some .8Ah SLAs, that weigh less than a pound, but that sure looks small in that large hull. I like my batteries to last all day on a charge. Maybe I can find some a little larger that won't cause the 'dead whale' act.:D
I don't like to parallel batteries, but 2 of the .8Ah size may be enough. That's about 1.6 lbs.

[toppack]

I may have found the perfect battery to replace the big one. A 2.3Ah that is shaped very flat so it will be low in hull and only weighs 1.7 pounds.
It has strange contact terminals but that should be okay?

http://www.power-sonic.com/site/doc/prod/80.pdf

[toppack]

I found another 12.V SLA battery that looks even better. (NP2-12)
It's shorter in length, has normal terminals, thin and 1.5 lbs, with 2.Ah. :)
Click Pics:

[toppack]

I'm trying a different top-coat Paint on this model, since it's fiberglass. I found a Satin Hunter-green in Krylon's 'Fusion' line, in spray cans. I sprayed the tower and so far is looks like the correct choice. It completely covered in one coat, goes on smooth and dries quickly.
The T-class will look great in that color. :)

[toppack]

Here's some pics of the pull/push brass wires that loop thru hull exterior. The other ends are looped around on/off and camera power switches. They are loose enough to be removed when WTC needs removing and the outer U shaped loop holds then firmly on switch levers.
I used this method on the Gato and it's working Great.:)
I wanted to take pictures of them Now since they will 'Completely Disappear' after painting hull. :D LOL
I'm hopeing those gaps at hull cover will disappear Also. ;) I still need more work there.

[toppack]

I desided to use the NP2-12 SLA battery in the T-class. It's a great size, weight and terminal configuration for it and only cost about $10. each.
It should last several hours before discharge, unless I take it to the 'Submarine-Races'. :D LOL

[toppack]

I now have the fore and aft dive-planes and the rudder linkages installed. Had to use the larger 5.mm diameter magnets again to prevent disconnects of the DPs, but there's plenty of space so that wasn't a problem. Everything fit well.
Since the SLA battery I'm now using has it's terminals on the end which is against a hull bulkhead, I had to cut a large rectangle hole in the bulkhead for the RTVed terminals, but that's good since it helps hold the battery in place and not let it shift.
The only major assembly challenge left to do now is triggers and linkages for the torpedo-launchers. I'll work on that some tomorrow.

[toppack]

Here's some pics of my torpedo-launcher-trigger assembly:
The dive-plane linkage can be seen also. The DPs will be glued to the steel rod, out both sides.
The spring-loaded release pins can be seen, inside the assembly, in the last picture.
A magnet linkage connection could be used for the DPs but had to use ball/snap type connections to activate the triggers. Just too much spring-force for magnets.
I think I have a working design but won't know for sure until I get the torpedos completed.

(This assembly is pictured up-side down and fits on top of the bow)

[Kazzer]

Looks like you've been really busy Rick!

That must have taken quite some time to make that. Very innovative!

[toppack]

Here's pics of the launcher assembly mounted on model and of the ball/snap linkage:
(the torpedo deactivation magnets (10.mm size) will be mounted under the small cover on top)
(The ball ends were mounted into loops bent into brass rods going into WTC and to servos)

[toppack]

Well Drat! I can't find an Anchor the correct size and type. Suppose I'll have to make that also?
I'm thinking about sculpting it from epoxy-putty attached to a short piece of square brass tube, drilled with several holes, so putty will be attached well to the tube. Then tube will go thru hole in hull, glued on inside.
Anyone have a better solution for a 1/48th-scale WW2 British Anchor?

[toppack]

I have another question about the T-class design.
There's a large groove on top center of the bow, that I can't figure out. I first thought it was for a tow-chain but then thought it may be for another anchor. But looking at this picture I'm thinking it had some other purpose, also? The chain appears to be attached to both sides of bow like a tow-chain but what's all the other stuff in the groove? Is there a wench line there?
Anyone have any ideas?
See pic:

[Kazzer]

I have another question about the T-class design.
There's a large groove on top center of the bow, that I can't figure out. I first thought it was for a tow-chain but then thought it may be for another anchor. But looking at this picture I'm thinking it had some other purpose, also? The chain appears to be attached to both sides of bow like a tow-chain but what's all the other stuff in the groove? Is there a wench line there?
Anyone have any ideas?
See pic:

I'm pretty sure its the anchor chain channel. If you look closely, you can see the chains laid in there.

[toppack]

I'm pretty sure its the anchor chain channel. If you look closely, you can see the chains laid in there.

Guess it could be, but Sure looks strange for an anchor chain, tho?
Notice how the chain Ts at the forward end and is attached to both sides of hull ?
I'm starting to think it's a multi-purpose chain, mainly used for Towing of the sub,
in harbor, at dry-docks, or in case of engine failure or damage at sea.
And the groove is just for storage of chain and other dock-lines.

I'll just put in a T shaped chain and attach at sides of bow to simulate it.

[toppack]

Well Drat! I can't find an Anchor the correct size and type. Suppose I'll have to make that also?
I'm thinking about sculpting it from epoxy-putty attached to a short piece of square brass tube, drilled with several holes, so putty will be attached well to the tube. Then tube will go thru hole in hull, glued on inside.
Anyone have a better solution for a 1/48th-scale WW2 British Anchor?

Any ideas for the Anchor?

Actually the chain across bow is the 'Monsters Eyebrows'! :D

[toppack]

The Monster now has an Anchor and Eyebrows. :)
It sure had a small Anchor for that size boat!

I want to install the Cables that go between tower and the bow & stern. There's no problem with one to stern but the one to bow needs to be detachable so the deck/cover can be completely removable.
So, I'll need to devise a quick-disconnect at the bow end. I haven't figured out the best way to do that yet?
Maybe just a 'Hook & Loop'?
Any suggestions?

[toppack]

I found a way to attach the cable at bow, have it removable, and also hide the attachment point.
Also allows for the tension to be adjusted, if needed.
It's not attached exactly at the original location but close.
I'll take some pictures tomorrow.

[toppack]

I'm still having trouble with flotation balance of the T-class. Since I had to add so much lead-weight in keel to get it level, she sinks way too 'fast and furious' when the ballast-tank starts filling with water.
What I'm now considering is cutting off part of the ballast-chamber to shorten it and installing more flotation-foam in that space. It's about 15" long now, which I think is too large? I think the extra foam will bring it up closer to proper depth when surfaced also.
I would appreciate any thoughts on that before I do it, because it would be difficult to stick back on? :)

[toppack]

I found that if I cut off any, it will have to be 2.8", because of large hole in bottom and tank attached to top.

David,
Is that something I should do to improve flotation and reduce sink rate and level?
That will give about 12"X3.5" ballast-chamber.
It's Not really safely usable the way it is now. (Like a Lead Balloon)
I've got to get more flotation in this heavy thing somehow?

[toppack]

I had another idea. I could just put foam inside the ballast chamber, since it has removable end-cap. That way I can add or remove it as needed, and test it that way. That would almost be the same as reducing the chamber size.

[toppack]

Well, I put four 1" thick foam burger-patties in forward end of the ballest chamber. I'll get it all back together and try to test it again tomorrow. That should help some, just don't know if it's enough.

[toppack]

Still no Help for the confused T-class builder, I see.
Oh-well I'll see what my burger-patties do. :)
May not be able to test this weekend tho.

See pic:

[toppack]

I dunked the SD alone in the hot-tub and that end floats like cork, with remainder of chamber full of water, so it should help greatly in the hull. :)
I wasn't too sure about cutting a straight, clean cut in that tube without damaging something. Like maybe my only good hand. :)

[Kazzer]

Rick

I think everyone is confused as to your intent here with the ballast. Why don't you take the top off the boat & take some shots of the foam you've put into the hull. Lets see what you've been up to in there.

Can you explain exactly how you set up the trim? With the ballast tank full of water not foam, take a photo of the boat in the water. Lets see if you've trimmed it right. It should sit with the tip of the conning tower out of the water.

[toppack]

My question was if removing part of the very long ballast-chamber would be okay, but Never mind, I'll work it out on my own. I realize a question like that Can't be answered with just yes or no, and can get very complicated.
I think the foam inside the chamber will help, just need to get time to test it. And cutting off part of it would cause a problem with it's bulkhead mounting pad, also, so really don't want to do that, if I don't have to.

[Kazzer]

My question was if removing part of the very long ballast-chamber would be okay, but Never mind, I'll work it out on my own. I realize a question like that Can't be answered with just yes or no, and can get very complicated.



You didn't answer the question -- Can you explain exactly how you set up the trim? With the ballast tank full of water not foam, take a photo of the boat in the water. Lets see if you've trimmed it right. It should sit with the tip of the conning tower out of the water.

Nor did show us what you did with the foam trimming the boat. Did you in fact get it to periscope depth with the ballast tank full of water?

[toppack]

As I said in post #229, it Crash-dives with water in chamber, that's why I need to add more flotation, and the only place left to add it (below or at surfaced waterline) is to remove part of the chamber or put foam inside it, which I will try next.
I may be able to test and take pics tomorrow.
I'm also fighting a small leak at the toggle-switch, which I need to work on. :(

[Subculture]

Have you trimmed the boat so it's negatively buoyant when the tank is flooded?

If so add some more foam,above the waterline until you get the boat so that just the tip of the conning tower is above the surface, then use the hydrovanes to drive it under.

[toppack]

Thanks for the reply, but please read my above posts. I've explained that, as to why I can't. It's too negative and I can't remove any weight or it will roll when surfaced.