DeBoer Seaview

[ADDINGTON]

Having received scattered conversation regarding this big girl, I wanted to start this thread for discussion of making a working R/C model from the 80-inch Seaview manufactured by Dennis DeBoer.
deboerhulls.com
While Dennis has recently reissued this release, mine was acquired in the mid-1990's, and after hull assembly and some mods has been in limbo. I plan to resume the challenge after completing a comparatively pedestrian 1/96 Seawolf targeted for the August SubRegatta.
Way back when, purely by chance,a guy who happened to be a retired boat designer/hydrodynamicist saw my hull, took one look and said the bow would take me on a decided downward angle. His suggestions resulted in the more rounded underside of the frontal area seen in the attachments.
The images are screen grabs from video and thus a bit distorted, but I wanted to spark some discussion/comment bow-to-stern from those who have demonstrated operational mastery of this hull form in smaller scales. You know who you are.
Let the fun begin!
-Kerry

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Assemble that thing, get it running, the control surfaces installed, and only then sweat out how to keep this pig from pitching down. Don't be afraid, little-boy, I'll hold your hand.

David,

[ADDINGTON]

David, I know you will and nothing could be more comforting, as this Seaview would be tough to hold up with one hand.
I have a boat to finish first before this,but in the meantime, I know there are others who are already wrestling with the 80, so let the call go forth.
Has anyone ever seen one of these running, even just a surface runner?

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

David, I know you will and nothing could be more comforting, as this Seaview would be tough to hold up with one hand.
I have a boat to finish first before this,but in the meantime, I know there are others who are already wrestling with the 80, so let the call go forth.
Has anyone ever seen one of these running, even just a surface runner?

No, I have not seen the 80 incher in the water. You might have a 'first' on your hands, Kerry. I'll help where I can, pal.

Get ahold of Dennis -- if your pump-jet ducts are the same diameter as the ones of the current version, then maybe I can help you out and Dennis too. With Mr. Caswell's permission, of course.

David,

[Subculture]

Photo taken at Sandown Model Show back in 1996. This Seaview belongs to Alan Warehand, it is still in development, but has been run on the surface, latest ballast system is twin bellows. Original system consisted of a central air bag, with air compressor. The bag was a work of ingenuity, it was sewn up from a piece of net curtain, and dipped in latex to make it air tight and waterproof! Unfortunately major issues with trim relegated the system to the scrap box.

Didn't Ray Mason have a working Seaview?

[Rick Teskey]

If I'm not mistaken , Ed Tordahl has an 80 incher.
Like Dave said get a drive system in her and then see whats what.
Trim tanks , sliding weight , gyroscopic eneratia dapeners, crap many ways too skin a cat and they go great with plum sauce as well!
MMmmmm cat augggh

Rick's right, work it out in the water, Kerry. And Rick should know -- in my book he is, 'Mr. r/c SEAVIEW submarine man'.

And Andy's mention of Ray Mason is spot on -- I think he was (one of) the first to get a SEAVIEW working underwater.

It can me made to work underwater without any external changes to the design.

David,

[ADDINGTON]

No question getting into the water is first priority.I am a Seawolf and some months away from diving into all this, but great to see the masters weigh in.
In the meantime, I look forward to monitoring the discussion.
Alan, Ed, Ray ?

[JohnG]

Great thread. I'll pollute it a little with the 57" DeBoers Seaview build too in future posts, it's kind of the "trial" run before the monster 80. Learning a lot from the 57.
I'm certainly interested in pumpjets for the 80" whale, David.
cheers,
John

[LOFTDRIVER]

I have finally got my own 80 incher back in the water .Please see attached photos.I was suprised at how little lead was need to get her to sit at the water line showen.With out the air bags inflated the model sits at decks awash.The speed controller let me down so I was unable to see how the propusion jets worked.I will post more in the future when the bugs are sorted out.

[JohnG]

That is just cooler than snot! as they say.
Beautiful. I may have to flirt with getting mine sooner now...
Hmmm, what band of highway robbers must I join for the cash is the only question. More pictures!
John

[JohnG]

continued....
http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=390&albumid=40&dl=1249848439&thumb=1 This is my goofy solution for a 'capture lip' to secure the deck to the hull.
Well, it's not really a lip so don't give me any lip! It's got a block that indexes with the hull joist, with an aluminum threaded sleeve that a stainless fastener mates up to through the decktop.

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=406&albumid=40&dl=1249848605&thumb=1

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=394&albumid=40&dl=1249848439&thumb=1 You still have to fart around with it a little to get the deck perfectly aligned on top & THEN tighten it.

MORE on next post....

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=393&albumid=40&dl=1249848439&thumb=1 The opening at the top of the hull was WAY too wide etc...so I reduced it's width, shaped the front of the hole. Nice job, but I didn't take any pictures of the process. Woops. Too busy cursing bodywork labor.

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=399&albumid=40&dl=1249848605&thumb=1 NOW WE COME TO the most reviled part of submarining--LIMBERHOLES. I hate them worse than sanding. I could not for life of me make a decent, symmetrical holes out of the crappy indentation of the top deck, even following David's careful instruction. It really sucked. SO, I just cut out the damn verticle pieces & planned to add them back in using laser-cut styrene bar. BUT WAIT! theres more.

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=398&albumid=40&dl=1249848605&thumb=1 THIS is what happens to pie-crust like gel-coat when you try to do ANYTHING to it. It really really really sucks. The neighbor kids certainly have a vast vocabulary of new curse words after hearing me in my shop.

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=401&albumid=40&dl=1249848605&thumb=1 MORE bodywork, repairs to make some kind of a straight structure.

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=402&albumid=40&dl=1249848605&thumb=1

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=404&albumid=40&dl=1249848605&thumb=1 SO don't get mad, GET EVEN. I cad drew up a set of drawings for the fore & aft limberholes & took them to my friendly neighborhood laser cutter dude, & voila!
Precision cut, PERFECT limberholes in styrene, ready to be bonded to the crumbling deck:
http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=400&albumid=40&dl=1249848605&thumb=1

[JohnG]

..continued.........

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=405&albumid=40&dl=1249848605&thumb=1 Limberholes looking AOK, fore & aft.
http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=408&albumid=40&dl=1249851682&thumb=1

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=414&albumid=40&dl=1249851859&thumb=1

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=407&albumid=40&dl=1249848605&thumb=1 Here is the bulkhead stringers that support David's observation nose interior.

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=410&albumid=40&dl=1249851682&thumb=1

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=397&albumid=40&dl=1249848605&thumb=1Now, the Flying Sub hatch doors supplied were totally unsuitable & the wrong scale (in my opinion) so I rebuilt them using trusty old Evergreen Plastics sheet.
http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=411&albumid=40&dl=1249851682&thumb=1

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=412&albumid=40&dl=1249851682&thumb=1

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=409&albumid=40&dl=1249851682&thumb=1 Small high strength magnets on each corner secure the hatch to the opening. To remove, just push on it from above though the top hull. Looks a lot better!

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?pictureid=413&albumid=40&dl=1249851682&thumb=1 Here is another magnet secured hatch in the aft, to gain access to the rack & pinion rudder room.

Thats about it for now, I haven't done anything else to her since last summer (shame on me) but I was busy with work. All that remains is to make up linkages & find a pool for trim adjusting. I'll post some more on how I worked up the mounting for the WTC inside the hull, later.
John

[JohnG]

From left to right:
1 & 2-aft crawlspace & dive plane tiller.
3-To avoid having to perform a complicated aft hull separation & to save space that a tiller would in part make that all nece, I built a "rack & pinion" rudder control.
4 & 5 -I constructed forward facing fixed louvers to act as inlets on the engine tubes.
I think it looks nicer than a blank hole & will keep some of lake millfoil & polliwogs from fouling the PJ. I hope.
A note about enough water flow to the PJ: On the eight foot filming miniature, on either side of the keel there were about six holes on each side, obviously to aid in filling hull, I assume... You can catch this on some early season shots of the sub passing close overhead. Anyway, this will be a wonderful thing to copy to help get more flow, without having to open up too much of the hull....I HOPE.
...continued next post....

[JohnG]

....continued....Pics from left to right:
1- Lots of bluetape 'dams' & masks to help keep a nice bead of west system & Evercoat in the crevices & bonding tubes to hull, & help reduce sanding. I HATE sanding. I hate bodywork period. Simply mask about 1/4 inch or less on either side of your crevice to be filled, use your finger like a puddy knife.

2 & 3- finished bonding tubes to stern---not too bad!

4 & 5- My goofy version of upper deck to hull lock, with aluminum threaded post under hull joist, makes up to stainless fastener through decktop.

[JohnG]

.....continued.... Pics right to left:

1 & 2- an 'index' for proper deck positioning, all constructed from block styrene.
3- LIMBERHOLES! they are holes for sure, but I wouldn't call them 'limber'...Despite careful coaching by David M, I could not for the life of me cut, fill & sand these damn vertical slots as to be uniform, so matter what I did. So I cut them all out & decided to replace them with square styrene strip.
4-BUT this is what happened when you have only over cooked PIE CRUST for a gel-coat. This added insult to injury, taught the neighbor kids a whole new vocabulary of overheard cursing & a few temptations at launching the deck into the trash.....
5-BUT after cooling off period repairs were initiated.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Permit me to gush a bit -- no one appreciates the problems you've had with fit and failed gel-coat on this kit than me! You're doing a wonderful job on this.

Though the louvers you've made are a bit better (area wise) than the production version you'll need much more inlet area to satisfy the needs of the pump-jets. You know this. Bite the bullet and open up the mini-sub hatch, that will help a lot. And like you suggested, opening up an array of flood-drain ports on the bottom of the hull will also aid in this effort.

I don't see any mis-steps so far. Keep up the good work. Am awaiting more progress reports on this assembly. Well done, sir!

David,

[JohnG]

.....continued.....Pics left to right:

1 & 2 further repair, reinforcing, praying etc...use of styrene strips & industrial AC, Everecoat...
3- Don't get mad, get even--I drew up a whole set of Limberhole plates on my CAD program & took them down to my friendly neighborhood laser cutter dude, & VIOLA! perfect, precision Limberholes!
4- Looks great!
5- NOt bad, & what a relief. I have a lot of these sets of Limberhole plates, if anyone needs them.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Oh ...

... and you're killing yourself trying to preserve the kit missile hatch disks and centrally running spine! Grind 'em off, work the flat deck (concave, right?) with filler and sanding block and add styrene disks and spine later.

God, what a nightmare trying to cut around those deck high-relief items with rifler files and special sanding tools!

Save yourself the aggravation and shave those bumps off the top of the deck ... now!

David,

[JohnG]

.......continued......From left to right:

1- The Flying Sub hatch doors supplied were totally inadequate & out of scale....So, out with some "Evergreen Plastics' styrene serrated roofing. (you can see the size on the package for those wishing to do the same)
2 & 3 after much fiddling about to get the exact contour of the opening, contracted a framework & attached high strength magnets to the four corners.
4- Fits like a glove, & strong too. To release, simply push on framework from atop though hull.
5- here is the goofy support structure for Merrimans awesome observation room kit.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Good fix on the limber holes topside. Now, for the bad news: you have at least seven different substrates involved here (GRP, gel-coat, various adhesives, the limber hole blank material itself, two-part polyester filler, putty, and primer/paint), each with its own expansion/compression rate as a consequence of temperature change.

Cracking!

So, don't let this completed model of yours suffer under the rays of the afternoon sun only to have it unceremoniously plopped into the nice cool water when you're ready to play. Do all you can to minimize extreme and quick temperature changes to the model.

David,

[JohnG]

.....continues.....Pics left to right:

1- shows the top access hatch for the "rudder room"
2- perfect limberholes (if there is such a thing) & the forward facing engine tube intake grates.
3- Limberholes fore, looks fine!
4- forgot this one, & although I neglected to take shots of it, had to add a significant amount of material to bring the opening at the top of hull IN, becaue it was cut too wide & the deck did NOT cover it adequately. It was a major job with West System & evercoat, but thankfully I learned while I was performing it AND luckily didn't screw up!

[JohnG]

Last year I had the luck to find the curator of Paul Allen's Sci-Fi museum in Seattle (close to where I live) & was able to meet him & have some 'alone time' with the original 17 foot Seaview filming miniature, as restored by David. It is not on public display.
They had it suspended in the air, (not sure I want to know what drilling & such they did to get it to hang). To make room for other exhibits, they were taking Seaview down & putting in a very expensive custom 'crate' to be stored. I hope they bring it out again some day. Rest assured, these experienced museum guys will take superb care of her for the foreseeable future, nice to know it will be preserved properly.

[JohnG]

Good fix on the limber holes topside. Now, for the bad news: you have at least seven different substrates involved here (GRP, gel-coat, various adhesives, the limber hole blank material itself, two-part polyester filler, putty, and primer/paint), each with its own expansion/compression rate as a consequence of temperature change.

Cracking!

So, don't let this completed model of yours suffer under the rays of the afternoon sun only to have it unceremoniously plopped into the nice cool water when you're ready to play. Do all you can to minimize extreme and quick temperature changes to the model.

David,

Oy vay, I know....this may have all been a huge education in prep for the 80", & the 57" may become a display only. Horrors! It's kinda of fragile & I hope Dennis has new gel coat or we will have a talk before the 80" gets cast up! I can upsize the laser limberholes if I have to, but I hope it's not nece.

[JohnG]

Permit me to gush a bit -- no one appreciates the problems you've had with fit and failed gel-coat on this kit than me! You're doing a wonderful job on this.

Though the louvers you've made are a bit better (area wise) than the production version you'll need much more inlet area to satisfy the needs of the pump-jets. You know this. Bite the bullet and open up the mini-sub hatch, that will help a lot. And like you suggested, opening up an array of flood-drain ports on the bottom of the hull will also aid in this effort.

I don't see any mis-steps so far. Keep up the good work. Am awaiting more progress reports on this assembly. Well done, sir!

David,

I have another trick up my sleeve first, that I will try, then... when I can't get it to answer bells for full ahead, then the bell doors come off!

[JohnG]

Oh ...

... and you're killing yourself trying to preserve the kit missile hatch disks and centrally running spine! Grind 'em off, work the flat deck (concave, right?) with filler and sanding block and add styrene disks and spine later.

God, what a nightmare trying to cut around those deck high-relief items with rifler files and special sanding tools!

Save yourself the aggravation and shave those bumps off the top of the deck ... now!

David,

Yes, you are correct, but this deck (the second one I got from Dennis, (first one totally disintegrated) is SO brittle, it may just crumble into chunks like the sides. I'll work up enough nerve & go for it anyway. What say I brush on a coat of AC first?

[ADDINGTON]

JohnG and LOFTRIDER:
Any updates?
Can you tell us what your propulsion devices are?
Props? Pumpjets?
-Kerry

[JohnG]

All the operating gear is Merriman. I have a 3.5" WTC, pumpjets specifically designed for this boat. Some additional work for the steering gear room & then trimming. After that, it should be ready.
John

[Kazzer]

then maybe I can help you out and Dennis too. With Mr. Caswell's permission, of course.

David,

Hey! You're a big boy! You don't need my permission BUT ----- Just remember today's magic word!


TORPEDOES!

:-)

[ADDINGTON]

JohnG and/or LOFTRIDER..

Can you specify or estimate the capacity in fluid oz of your ballast tank?
-Kerry

[JohnG]

It's the standard Merriman 3 1/2" WTC.
Maybe David can spill on the operating specifications.
John

[LOFTDRIVER]

Sorry for the delay in posting more but my workshop was invaded by giant wasps and also needed a sort out.One thing that came up during the fist sea trials was a large leak in the aft compartment.As I was taking the photos for this site the back end was slowly filling with water.This has now been fixed.The water tight compartments for this beast are my own design and build.There are three compartments in the boat two are removible and the aft one is built into the back end.This houses the drrive motors and servoes for the rudder and rear dive nozzlez.Yes you did read that write nozzles.I will leave you in suspense on that one .The photos are of the water tight compartments.
more later
Loftdriver out

[LOFTDRIVER]

To carry on from the last time I will go into the drive for this model.The count less failliers to get this monster of the deep to move are many .The solution is the system that I will show you now .The propulsion tubes have been sleeved down to take a tube that is a good fit for a 45 size four bladed kort drive prob(the photos will explain more).This system has worked well.I was not going for a speed demon here but something that would look impressive and statley.The tubes were made from old used silicone gun tubes ,the type you use for bathroom sealing.These are held in place with plastic ring spacers and 24 hour two part epoxyed into place.This was then smothed over with milliput.The tubes are 4inches in length and finish 65mm from the end of the propusion duct ends.On the end of this is mounted a jet nozzle .Enjoy the photos.
More to follow
Loftdriver out

[LOFTDRIVER]

One of the Questions that was asked a few post,s back was what size motors to use and the size of Tank for this monster of the deep.The motors fitted to my model are low drain high reviving 540 types.The motors are running of there own 12volt system to make sure that they are getting the full six volts to work.I will explain. If you attach two six volt motors to a six volt battry they are not getting the full power out of the battry .Try it and you will see what I mean,as soon as you take one motor of the other motor spins faster.The ballast system has its own 6 volt system and the r/c gear has its own battery power.A lot of redundancey here but past experiance has shown that r/c subs get lost from to many things running of one battery .For an example go and see a r/c buggy race.When the battery goes flat on a buggy the motor takes all the juice and leaves you with no controll .Ok on buggy but not with over One grandes worth of model sub.The other question was what size tank will need to be fitted.I did some testing on my own model and came up with a three litre tank.My solution a system to do the job is being thught out as I type this but does not include a gas system.More latter.
Loftdriver out

[Kazzer]

The motors are running of there own 12volt system to make sure that they are getting the full six volts to work.I will explain. If you attach two six volt motors to a six volt battry they are not getting the full power out of the battry .
Loftdriver out

Doesn't that depend on how you wire the motors up? It sounds like you've wired two 6 volt motors together in SERIES to a 6 v power supply. If you wired them up in parallel, then I would have thought they would run at full speed. By wiring them in series, they would run slower.
Why don't you supply a diagram, so we can see what you are doing?

[Subculture]

That's probably more a function of the batteries ability to supply current. Lead acid batteries in particular can only supply a few amps before the voltage droops. Nicads were better, lithium batteries are the very best. This is why folk wanting power for big models go for higher voltages 12 or 24 volts. This reduces the current draw, and helps the batteries.

A switchmode BEC coupled with a system that runs a few volts above the regulated voltage (e.g. 5volts and above) is probably the most reliable set-up for a model sub.

3 litre tank eg. Big sucker. Have you looked at those Reich and Whale pumps I mentioned to you a while back? They'll pump that volume out in about 10-15 seconds.

You could use one the engel tanks you have kicking about as a trim tank. A 500ml tank would be right on the money for your 15%.

Why not bring it along to the next Dive-in at Brockwell? Should be in March or April next year.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/subculture84/Image0061.jpg

[LOFTDRIVER]

I think I have opened a can of worms here.The motors are wired like this.positive from one motor conected to a negative of the other motor then conected to the yellow wire on my speed controller the same positive from one side of a motor and negative on the other and then to the blue wire on the speed controller.This gives me the counter rotation that I need for forwerd and reverse propulsion with left and right props.My knowledge of electrics is rarther primevil but it works for me.As for the pumps mentioned by Subculture I have not checked them out yet but will do so soon.Thank you Kazzer and Subculture for givivng me some thing else to think about.If you have any ideas on how I can improve the electrical layout of my motors I would be greatfull.thank you
Loftdriver out

[Subculture]

No problem with that set-up, you're running two 6 volt motors in series from a 12 volt load, you'll drop 6 volts across each motor, so as far as the battery is concerned, it's seeing a single 12 volt load.

[LOFTDRIVER]

Having shown you how the propulsion tubes are set up on my Seaview I will now show you my idea on how to get the rear dive planes to work on this creature of the deep.Before I start this method has not been tried on this model ,it is still theoretical but I think it is the only way forward for any hope of control for this model.I did look at a normal set of dive planes but soon figured that a conventional set of planes would work more like shut off dames than dive planes .Not deflecting thrust but blocking it instead.The planes are conected in the normal way as rear planes and have a deflection up and down of 15 degrees,this way the full thrust from the props can be deflected up and down as needed.
Enjoy the photos ,more to follow.
Lofdriver out.

[LOFTDRIVER]

Welcome back to the seaview thread and just a quick word on rudders.
The only way to have any type of rudder control is by using the now formiliaure three rudder set up this makes things easy to ste up and controll will always be positive.In my last posting a caption for the first photo is of the parts needed to build my units.on the left is the drive nozzle(bottom) and the dive plane nozzle(top) and the hole thing put together on the right.The following photo is of my rudder set up and the dive/thrust units in place.I think I need a new key board after this weekend so will post more soon.Enjoy the photos.
Loftdriver out

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

You're on the right track. In the Polaris program we called those things 'jet-vators'. It'll work better than stern planes, for the reason you identified.

Excellent work. You'll have good rudder response as long as you lead-foot the throttle in the turn.

David,

[ADDINGTON]

Does any of this stern plane thinking apply to the rudders and could these jet-vators be actuated in the horizontal plane to affect turning?

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Does any of this stern plane thinking apply to the rudders and could these jet-vators be actuated in the horizontal plane to affect turning?

Yup, the first and second-stage of the Polaris A-1 and A-2 had two-axis jet-vators for pitch, yaw and roll control (differential use of the four nozzles employed each stage produced the torque to roll the bird).

So, yeah ... you can use these things for yaw, but he'll need to machine a new nozzle -- it's bulged only for pitch motion from what I've seen in the shots provided.

Nice work.

You going to give this a shot, Kerry? I knew you would be panting over these shots of the big Debore SEAVIEW.

David,

[ADDINGTON]

Yes, David this is indeed great stuff as until now the Big DeBoer has been
'Seaview VI: The Undiscovered Country'
Kudos and Bravos to LOFTRIDER for, to my knowledge, the first posting of any specialized work towards practical R/C of the 80" Seaview.
I believe Professor Teskey showed us a smaller version of a two-axis nozzle he was working on at the 08 SubRegatta so what say you Rick?
-Kerry

[cummerom31]

This Seaview belongs to Alan Warehand, it is still in development, but has been run on the surface, latest ballast system is twin bellows.

[Subculture]

It's my understanding the bellows had been consigned to the round filing cabinet.

[Rick Teskey]

Yes Kerry, I did vectored nozzels in the big and little fs-1 and some work on Seaview as well , my nozzels were from a ball valve with ball link connectors set at 90 degrees x 4 points , 2 driven and 2 as guides in slots
On one version I used semi circles as dive planes but need little throw too redirect the flow , I found full throw as pointed out did choke off flow so 5-10 degrees was good.
You will never get a rudder / dive plane responce like Big Daves sushi boat but that is a Tuna of a different color !
The ball nozzels I first sandwiched between 2 concaved plates too allow full rotary movement and yet captured so there was no drift off the center axis.
As I tell my cat " There is more than one way too skin you , but lets try the first method if you don't get your hairy ass off my keyboard!"
I love fly in your face ,nonconformist ,give it a go ,outside the box R &D stuff if even only based on hair brained ideas !! Some times they do work out and at worst they don't and you learn somthing in the process.
Bottom line you are "Doing"
Rube Goldberg AKA Tor

[Subculture]

Here's a link to a good pump.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/REICH-14L-SUBMERSIBLE-WATER-PUMP-caravan-motorhome-boat_W0QQitemZ170283845594QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Ca mpervan_Caravan_Accessories?hash=item27a5b547da

Runs on 12 volts DC, small(ish) and 14 litres per minute flow, so should empty your tank in about 12-17 seconds allowing for friction in the lines and valves etc. Use with a vented tank, and incorporate a trim tank 10-15% of your main ballast(piston tank or smaller water pump system) for trimming to neutral buoyancy.

So your main ballast tank would be 2.5-2.7 litres and your trim tank 300-500ml.

Because the main tank doesn't have to withstand pressure, it can be made any shape you like, although a cylindrical shape is best in the Seaview.

You will also need to make a large valve controlled by the servo to allow water in at the bottom of the tank.

The pump could be mounted inside the tank, as they're sealed and waterproof.

[LOFTDRIVER]

Hello subculture.Thanks for the heads up on the ballast pumps,Iwill check them out on the net as I am on night shift tommorow.Cummeron 31 mentioned that I had a thought to use a twin bellow system.This was all built and tested on the bench and worked well.There was only one problem.The two centrall water tight cylinders they were attached to would not fit back into the boat when built up.So that was the end of that Idea.I still have all the parts for this system so it might find its way into a type VII that I intend to be a test vessel for the Seaview.s systems. On the subject of vectored nozzles .You could use them as extra rudders if you could over come the connection problems.But personnally I dont think you would get much more control over using the three rudders that make the Seaviews back end look as it does.I will post more in the future.
Loftdriver out

[seaview]

hi guys just found your site I TO AM BUILDING A DEBORE SEAVIEW
AND ASKING THE SAME STUFF HOW ,WHY, AN DAM THAT WORKS
LOOK FORWARD TO SETTING AT THE FEET OF THE MASTERS
SEAVIEW DON

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

hi guys just found your site I TO AM BUILDING A DEBORE SEAVIEW
AND ASKING THE SAME STUFF HOW ,WHY, AN DAM THAT WORKS
LOOK FORWARD TO SETTING AT THE FEET OF THE MASTERS
SEAVIEW DON

Too bad the CultTVman site dropped my SEAVIEW how-to article. They still offer the DVD of the assembly I did on the smaller DeBoer model though.

David,

[jim h]

Kerry I just found the messages and numbers are on the way. Will check and see if part is still aval. from GM.


Jim

[deepwater]

Hi Guys,I was told about this form from Kerry a while back.I tried to get on it at that time but had problems getting in.My wife helped me tonight.and I made it.All I can say to you guys is wow!!! You guys are going to make this 80 inch monster work! I have mine sitting in my shop,it has been painted and thats is how far I have gotten.Now that I see you guys finishing you seaviews,Its makes me want to finish mine. Right now Im building a 1/72 ssn 21 seawolf to sell next spring.When I finish that I want to get back on the Seaview.There is loads of imformation on this form to help out everybody.Anyway I just wanted to say Hi to you builders Keep up the great work,and I will be watching this site. The best to you all! Dennis De Boer.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Hi Guys,I was told about this form from Kerry a while back.I tried to get on it at that time but had problems getting in.My wife helped me tonight.and I made it.All I can say to you guys is wow!!! You guys are going to make this 80 inch monster work! I have mine sitting in my shop,it has been painted and thats is how far I have gotten.Now that I see you guys finishing you seaviews,Its makes me want to finish mine. Right now Im building a 1/72 ssn 21 seawolf to sell next spring.When I finish that I want to get back on the Seaview.There is loads of imformation on this form to help out everybody.Anyway I just wanted to say Hi to you builders Keep up the great work,and I will be watching this site. The best to you all! Dennis De Boer.

By way of introduction, Dennis DeBoer IS the SEAVIEW man of the r/c world -- it's his GRP hull kits, mostly, that you see within the pages of magazines and photos posted to the net.

Dennis is an excellent model builder -- one of the best!

Yeah, we got to get a proper pump-jet worked out for your big SEAVIEW one of these days.

Welcome aboard.

David,

[deepwater]

Hi David, Thank you very much on the kind words about my models,and the warm welcome to this forum. I plan on learning a lot from this forum and your great model building!Like I always said, the modeling people are the greats people to know,I will be checking in ever so often,on building updates, and new products.Untell later,thanks, Dennis.

[JohnG]

Nice to see you Dennis! Post lots of pictures of the 80 inch....
Somehow seeing them induces me to want to spend money on one.
Somehow I'm not resisting much...
John

[seaview]

hi guys
hi dennis welcom !!
if the master of all things submarines david took a moebius seaview kit
and made it do great things with his wtc system why will it not
work with this big 80"hull?? reverse seem to be issue but if cheater holes in the bottom of the thruster tubes are used to vent the water out
to go backwards out the lower vents thease vents can be removed to
run when. on display the vents with magnets on them can be put in
place and no one would know any deffrents am i thinking wrong ??
i think david system can work
seaview

[Rick Teskey]

The articale in scale ships many years ago with Dennis's Seaview is what got me interested in r/c subs
Rick

[LOFTDRIVER]

Hello Seaview.In answer to your question about the engine vents.They are needed in forward and rear propulsion.In tests done on my own moster of the deep I found that the gill slits helped in both directions .In forward motion the vents guided the water flow into the props aiding propulsion.In reverse I found that with out the gils being there and just a large hole the Seaview tended to move left or right when reverse was applied,but with the gills in place the water flow was dircted down both sides of the hull and the sub comes to a nice straight stop.The down side is that you do need to make sure that the gills are fillied and held in place well.I will try to post some photos of this soon.
Loftdriver out

[jim h]

Kerry the part numbers are 12385806 or 12470911. Check the prices there and let me know my GM prices are $70.70 and $85.60 plus tax. These are both reversable air pumps with relays and wired up to a connector .I will post
you a picture when I get home. Either should work great for a ballast tank pump or a surface pump as we where talking about.



Jim

[ADDINGTON]

Jim,
Thanks very much for this info. I will check it out.
Next week I hope to post pics of my custom ballast tank now under construction.
-Kerry

[jim h]

Kerry you are very welcome. I have to get me one of these hulls I guess I got almost all the parts and drawings to build it . Think about the pump and using it like we talked about it will work and will set the hull up where it should be at surface trim. If you have to pay much more than what I quoted let me know and I will buy the pump at my price and send it to you and you can just pay me back. I have no problem at all with that.I am going to get some pictures for you be back in a bit.

Jim

[jim h]

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n253/spongjim/WhatIdo013.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n253/spongjim/WhatIdo012.jpg

[jim h]

How much are these hulls and can you still get them from Dennis?



Jim

[Subculture]

What sort of pump are they? Diaphragm based?

[jim h]

Lumbar pump from a chevrolet truck. Push -pull pump it can inflate a large ballast tank and pull it back down to a vacum . I been playing with these for awhile and they work great just have to use them in a large sub.


Jim

[ADDINGTON]

Submitted for your approval, my holiday build of a ballast tank for the 80:
Numerous variations of graph paper templates went thru mockup and layout trials to determine a size and shape for a tank that would provide optimal capacity,the ability to insert and remove, and.. keep virtually all of the floodable volume below the desired surfaced waterline.
The main body is a section cut from 6" O.D. acrylic tube with 1/8" wall thickness. This was clamped at the ends to conform for adhesion to endplates of 1/4" acrylic sheet. The shape of the endplates was determined by the graph paper templates.
The three internal baffle plates and vertical supports were made from .040 polycarbonate sheet.
The "roof" or lid of the tank is .020 sheet.(protective shrink wrap remains on shots below)
All adhesion was done with Weld-On #16, a syrupy solvent that bonds for keeps and when properly applied results in a waterproof seal

Length= 22"
Width= 5 7/16"
Height= 2 3/4"
Capacity= 120 ounces / 3.3 liters

Obviously I have no idea yet as to what kind of job this tank will do in the water. I do know from a previous tank build that the seemingly shallow arc of the lid is plenty sufficient to direct escaping air for complete venting.
I solicit all comment and advice about vent valve configuration, use of jimh's pumps or any other theories of optimum ballast system setup.
As the holidays had our cameras in use, please pardon the iphone photo quality.
-Kerry

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

A very good job there, can't fault the design or fabrication technique. Keep the liquefied gas away from this tank or you'll shatter it.

David,

[LOFTDRIVER]

Hello Kerry,
Thank you for posting photos of your tank design for the big Seaview.The tank you have designed should do the job well.I see that you have fitted baffles into the tank to slow down water movment when moving .The only problem I can forsee is the type of water tight arangement you intend to fit your beast with,do you intend to build some of the the water tight compartment over this tank?
May be to hold the tank ballast systems? I have not done much more to my own boat at the moment as the workshop is far to cold at the moment to sit down and do any work.The idea I was thinking of was for a cylinder fitted inbetween my water tight cylinders and blown with stored compresed air.This I will sort out later.But you have given me some thing to think about.
And to every one a happy new year.
Loftdriver out

[Subculture]

I take it the tank will work unpressurised and either full or empty, else that design could cause problems.

Also are you fitting a trim tank. A big boat like this will really benefit from it.

[Subculture]

Alan, have you got room for a reservoir for a compressed air ballast system? I know the Seaview is a big boat, but last time I looked it over, you were pretty packed out in there.

[ADDINGTON]

Gentllemen and Mr. Moderator,
Thanks for the feedback. Yes, this is old-school with no added pressure to the tank.
Gas venting directly against acrylic a definite no-no.
I think decisions about trim tanks, etc. can, for me, only come after I see how things sit in the water.
While many proven ballast system designs could be viable for raising this hull to a surfaced waterline equivalent to say, a WWII fleet boat,the iconic surfaced trim beauty shot of Seaview is a much higher freeboard.
As a resource, you really can't beat the VBOTS DVD 'Season Two-Volume One,' which includes a special features chapter with tons of raw FX footage. Worth the price alone are the Lydecker overcranked shots of the 17-footer shot at low angle. One of the clips is some 70 seconds in length and shows a waterline that hits right around the bottom of the 4 bow windows. I would love to achieve a waterline where at least the top 80% of the windows are exposed.
This desired waterline dictated the height, profile and functional displacement of my tank.
One of the surfaced drive-by clips shows the model trimmed a bit heavier in the stern to get the windows clear of the bow wake/wash.
It prompted me to think that if my main tank achieved enough freeboard, perhaps a "sliding keel" could be biased a bit aft to kick the nose up for surface running only.
Another obvious design consideration for the profile/cross-section of this tank was how it would affect the overall layout of internal components. As you can see in the shots from my last post, there is some 3" of space in the hull above the tank.
So yes, my intention is for any ballast pumps or other associated mechanisms to be located above the tank. Since longitudinal space in any aft WTC/SubDriver would be precious, I might need the option of using the space above the tank for any components that do not absolutely have to be in the aft watertight compartment, including any half-ass sliding keel mechanism. The space foward of the tank I would imagine will be occupied by a sizeable battery, but we want to preserve some real estate here for the future, just in case one of you guys figures out how to launch an Aurora FS-1 from this mother.
-Kerry

[LOFTDRIVER]

Hello Kerry and Subculture,
On the subject of trim tanks I was thinking of fitting one in the bow to raise it up to get the water clear of the windows. Where I have the water line on my boat is about right to achieve this.This tank would then flood or do some thing to get to a level water line and then the main tank to flood to submerge her. I do have room In my own boat for a ballast system and some sort of air bottle, as the large water tight cylinder has nothing in it as yet. I was even thinking of going back to the large latex bag idea, but made from an old wet- suit or something similer. But first, I need to get her back to the water (when the better weather comes) and experiment further. I would like to get her submerging on a level trim first, then think about more complex ideas when I know the basic principles work.

Loftdriver out

[Subculture]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/subculture84/Seaviewballastsystem.gif

Here's my outline for a ballast system for the Seaview. Simple and cheap, but will allow you to hover your boat and easily compensate for different water density. Both tanks are cylindrical, the main tank is 120mm diameter at about 200mm long and the trim tank about 50mm diameter and 100mm tall.

The main tank is vented, and the centrifugal pump only has to be run to blow the main tank. An large cross section valve at the bottom will allow the main tank to flood. This valve would need to be custom built, as I don't know of any valve this size available commercially. As it only has to deal with very low pressure, it could be made quite simply.

The trim tank is fed via persitaltic pump, it should be cylindrical, and mounted upright to avoid sloshing. A small hole under 0.5mm could be drilled in the top to allow air to vent out, but the hole would be too small to allow water in (surface tension). If you wish to keep the tank completely sealed, it should be enlarged to about 300ml and the main ballast tank enlarged to suit.

Alternative trim tanks could be a single piston tank mounted laterally (e.g. a cut down Engel tank), or a pair of 100ml syringes driven by screw jacks or by peristaltic pumps at each end of the main tank.

[deepwater]

2245Hi Guys! Watched the dvd season two, volume one, on the special effects that Kerry was talking about. I had the dvds over a year and never knew about the sfx. Anyway watching your guys build got me excited. I blew of the dust on my seaview and took some measurements for a ballast system. I took a picture, I hope it turns out ok. This is the first time posting a picture.
Take care
Dennis.

[ADDINGTON]

SubCulture,
Your ballast tank system is ingenious and yet another good idea to factor into my planning.
The tank profile, however, is a bit tall for my desired surface trim,
which limits functional tank volume at around 70mm high inside the hull.
Deepwater,
Really great to see you here.
Looks like 2010 could be the Year of the 80.
-Kerry

[Subculture]

It's just a variation on a theme.

You could incorporate such a system into your tank design, just needs a bit of jiggery pokery.

[LOFTDRIVER]

I was just thinking to myself this lunch time about the surface trim of this boat.I am probably going to offend some of you with this but if it has the effect of a debait about this subject then so be it.I have at home a video taken at a show in the states of a Seview model running and diving with the super high free board that is seen in the film and some of the tv show.This model seemed to take forever to dive and looked like it did not enjoy the experiance at all,it had a nice dived trim but looked far from happy about being at depth.On the surface it looked more at home.I notice that the surface trim of Davids boat is a lot lower is this by design? or down to the size of ballast tank used?The water line that david has on his boat also turns up on the tv show in shots by a navy base.The water line I have on my boat is what I think of as normal water line for a model of this type.Is there a way to come up with the water line for this boat or is it going to be up to the individual to what he can get his boat to work at.I think that it will be the later but it will be nice to no what everone thinks on this subject.
Loftdriver out

[ADDINGTON]

If you are seeking opinions,since no one has yet produced a working diveable 80, I could not find fault with anyone who achieves the feat with any reasonable surfaced waterline.
In my case, I am merely starting with a goal of seeing as much of the bow windows exposed as possible.
Since we're talking about Seaview, is there really any "correct" surfaced trim ?

[Subculture]

Waterline is just a function of

1. Size of ballast tank and how much room you have to stow one.
2. Volume of hull above the waterline. Thickly laminated hulls need bigger ballast tanks.

Dive time is a function of

1. Type of pump (air or water)
2. Size of valves to vent air or water.

The type of pumps I have described (Whale or Reich) will empty a tank of about 3 litres volume in under 15 seconds, and that's quite fast enough IMO. If you want a bigger tank, then you could add two pumps working parallel, or fit a bigger pump, or accept a slightly longer dive time.

The important thing for such a big boat is independent control of main ballast and trim ballast, because being such a large vessel, small changes in water density will have a big impact on the trim of your boat.

[seaview]

hi guys
The water line changed in each show. If you get too high the seaview will be top heavy and the manta fins will dig in when you turn the sub.
A water line at mid window ( on the 4 window hull ) seems to be more stable. we must remember that this is not a real submarine,
if it was the U S Navy would have one. I have seen this same thing with the 66"nautilus. If you dream it do it!
When the Seaview shot torpedoes, where did they come from?


seaview

[greenman407]

Kerry, What an awesome build you have going there, I just read thru the whole thing and stole a bunch of pictures. Looks to me like that there is no way you can fail because you have so many people behind you! It was nice talking with you by phone today. Ill be in touch. :biggrin:

[ADDINGTON]

So far I've only offered a ballast tank, but as the weather warms hopefully all the posters here can continue to share ideas, get these hulls wet and hopefully we will make 2010 the year of the 80 !
-Kerry

[Scott T]

Check out the valve on a large detergent bottle for a possible ballast tank drain valve. Parts of it might work for a
valve under low pressure.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_m-4BFRu70T0/S1IXLs1Te2I/AAAAAAAAC1s/WXONI-M4vQY/s400/DSC00809.JPG

Scott

[LOFTDRIVER]

As the winter has finally gone and the loft has been cleared it is time to start work on the beast.I have got here back on the work bench and have started work on firming up the control links that were a bit to slack for my taste.The other question that has been raised is the size and mode of ballast tank.I have in my spares box three 825 size Engal tanks.I am thinking of using one of these and also a compreased air system.The thinking so far goes like this flood two tanks either side of a central engal tank.The idea is to take the boat down to a just afoat leavel with the air tanks and then final trim with the more controled Engal tank.The question I need an answer to is can an Engal tank be used in a free flood area.As long as the working end is in a water tight compartment does it matter if the rest of it is in the water.I have never seen this done .Please any help will be of great value.
Loftdriver out

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

You are making this system much, much harder and difficult to maintain than it has to be.

But, to address your specific question:

Yes, you can put the piston tank assembly in the wet if (as you point out) you keep the motor, switches, controller, and attached gear-train in the dry. But, you will have to insure that you port the displaced air from the dry-side of the piston to a watertight space of sufficient volume to be compressed to not too high a pressure when the piston(s) go to the 'flood' position.

Your proposed arrangement is overly complicated, redundant, and stupid. Don't do it.

David,

[Albion]

The question I need an answer to is can an Engal tank be used in a free flood area.As long as the working end is in a water tight compartment does it matter if the rest of it is in the water.I have never seen this done .Please any help will be of great value.
Loftdriver outpotentially yes, but how will you get a good seal on the outside of the tank. When the piston moves it pressurises the WTC, and that will probably blow your ballast tank off the end of the wTC.

[Subculture]

A very nice 205 class built by Nigel Edmonds uses two piston tanks mounted inside a central main ballast tank. This tank is emptied and filled using a peristalitic pump, which is set-up to suck the air out of the tank. There is no exposed water surface- neutral and negative trim is taken care of by the two piston tanks, which are servo controlled.

Anyone who has seen this boat will testify that it moves up and down statically like an elevator, and hovers at any height.

Modifying the Engel tanks to fit will not be difficult. If you're using compressed air, and the piston tank for trim then you could reduce the length of the tank to give 10-15% of the overall ballast volume. If you use a single tank then this is likely to result in a shifting C.G so you might want to consider a movable battery connected to servo. Or fit twin piston trim tanks like the German modellers do with their big 'pressluft' boats.

[greenman407]

Kerry, I dont want to get off of the present subject but in the past you have talked about some Seaviews tendancy to dive when underway. I just stumbled across this picture of my Seaview taken a couple of years ago. Perhaps you can tell something by the shape of the manta fins where they join the nose.3875

[ADDINGTON]

Mark,
As I have no practical experience with this hull form,
any comment I have made about any Seaview running tendencies are purely paraphrasing of commentary by builders/runners like yourself.
Not sure what you mean about the fin/nose. Elaborate? I'm missing the obvious as usual!

[greenman407]

You earlier had mentioned to me that an aquaintance had viewed your Seaview and remarked that the way the bottom of the hull meets the top at the nose would determine its tendency to dive on its own or not. That is why early in your posts you showed a picture of the nose of your Seaview to illustrate the point, if memory serves.

[ADDINGTON]

Apologies- Yes I did do some sculpting of the lower frontal area as seen in the photos on the initial post. I wish I could tell you what effect it has but I am working toward it!

[jim h]

Kerry ,I got the hull coming .


Jim

[jim h]

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n253/spongjim/seaview003.jpg

Hull is here . Building time.

[greenman407]

Jim, the two Seaviews that you have pictured here, where did they come from, its kind of hard to tell from the pictures. Is that the 57" on the right and if so what is the one on the left? It has 8 windows and looks like a Teskey!

[ADDINGTON]

I can only telll you the one on the right is the one and only 80.

[jim h]

On the left is aTeskey hull and the other is a DeBoers hull.

[greenman407]

JimH , Im a little slow as you can tell. you got a Teskey did you? Did you get it from the man himself or did you get it second hand? Not my business but im just trying to keep up with the members of the fraternity.

[Tugfan]

I wish Dennis would go to GRP instead of that heavy fiberglass. I built his Skipjack and by the time it was done it weighed a ton. Too heavy and combersome. I can imagine the weight of the 80" Seaview.

[Subculture]

GRP is fibreglass.

A GRP hull doesn't have to be heavy, it depends on who lays it up. For instance OTW hulls are laid-up in polyester resin with chopped strand matt, which typically gives the heaviest laminates when compared with cloth and epoxy resin, but they're still very light.

[Tugfan]

I meant a glass renforced plastic or resin. Not full laid up real boat fiberglass like his hulls are.

[LOFTDRIVER]

After last years credit crunch and my life mostly going down the tubes I have finally got my loft work shop
cleared and the only thing on it is the beast.I have re -worked the rudder and rear dive plane push rods
into some thing that now works with no play in the function of each.The other thing I have started is the
propulsion gill intakes .In will post more and with photos at a later date.May I say a belated happy new year to you all .And this time there is no stopping till this beast is finished ( I have a Patrick Henry that i
need to be finished )

Loftdriver out

[Kazzer]

GRP is fibreglass.

A GRP hull doesn't have to be heavy, it depends on who lays it up. For instance OTW hulls are laid-up in polyester resin with chopped strand matt, which typically gives the heaviest laminates when compared with cloth and epoxy resin, but they're still very light.

Lets be precise here. GRP means Glass Reinforced Plastic/polyester

Which will come in many forms. You could have a sauna tub made of it - about 1/4" thick, or the other extreme would be RPMTech's Holland hull, which is wafer thin. (Business card thickness) Rick's expertise of making model aircraft parts made him develop these 'styles'. Next thinnest model I've seen is Merriman's Skipjack and his 212.

[Subculture]

Bringing 'the beast' to the Summer Dive-in, Alan?

[LOFTDRIVER]

Hello subculture,Try and stop me.This time its the last time.I have started work on a new ballast tank and am looking to use the pump you sujested some time back.There is one question about the pump,can it be reversed.
The propulsion gils should be fitted by the end of next week.I can the re spray the propulsion pods and then get on with the
rest of it.
Loftdriver out

[Subculture]

I think it was the whale or Reich pumps I suggested, which are centrifugal types, so not reversible.

A good reversible pump is the type used by OTW in their dive modules, which is the Shurflo Nautilus. They fit a different motor to make it a bit more compact, but you have enough room in your boat for the standard version. They are more expensive than the other pumps though.

But why do you want a reversible pump?

Andy

[LOFTDRIVER]

I was watching the video the other day of David Merriman building the 57 inch version of the beast and he mentioned about the clear windows ,and how to clean them after a run at the local pond.The answer that I use is more clearly showen in the photos .The idea came from a copy of SEAVIEW SOUNDINGS,a mag that was prodoced by fans of the show but only maid it to three copys in total.If you can find them then think about getting them as they are rather good to read and have some good photos of the 17 foot model.The windows on the beast are larger than the 57inch version and do get scratched because of the grit in the water and other matter and will need to be replaced from time to time.The materials used are thin clear perspex sheet and brass sheet.The bolts came from the local model shop.The photos show the first incarnation of this unit.I have upgraded it slightley in the the blots heads were removed and the attached the hull by arildite.This makes fiting/removal of the perspex sheet much easier.Enjoy the photos

loftdriver out

[LOFTDRIVER]

As an udate to my last post here are some photos of the lite Beast with internal control room .The showes we some times went to as a club did not have a pool so I built the control room as a way of hiding the huge empty gap behind the windowes and make the model more intresting to the public .I have included the Attack of the Killer Bear as a bit of lght releif.

Loftdriver Out

[LOFTDRIVER]

What little work that I started on the Beast last year was to make a more positive connection from the
servos to the rudder and rear planes.The links as first fitted were not up to the job and there was a fair bit of movment in the connections.This was partley down to the very limited access to the very rear of this model.As I was looking at the posts to this site from JOHN G (thank you for the inspiration John) I thought that the only way to fix the problem was to saw a hatch in the back as John had.Many days of trying to think of how best to do this followed.Sawing large holes etc into my pride and joy do not come easy.So saw in hand I dived in ,Thinking "that its only fibre glass if you muck it up it will be easy to fix,you have done this before". I am pleased to say that this dractic surgery worked.The greater access made it a bit easier to re - work the pushrods ,they now have ball and socket joints and they are split just before the rear water tight compartment.If this was not there it might have been a bit easier in the firt place.The reason for the split at this point is to make it easier to re-new the bellowes when they need to be replaced.The one thing I have learnt from model sube is if it can go wrong it will,you must make sure you can get into fix things if needed.
Enjoy the photos,and next time I will show you the work on the Gill slits

Loftdriver out

[greenman407]

Loftdriver, Where did you get those cool drawings of the Seaview? Can some be had of the Eight window version?

[LOFTDRIVER]

Hello greenman 407,
The drawings that can be seen in the photo come from a set of drawings in the S.S.R.N. SEAVIEW TECHNICAL manual.This
is writen by Frederick Barr for Time Merchant Productions.I am not sure if this is still in print or avalible .You could try serching for it on the net.These drawings also were in the Seview Sounding Mags I mentiond.There is some nice plans for the control room Flying Sub ,Mini Sub and the Diving bell.There is also a nice drawing of the deck layout.It is manly for the two window version but the sail drawings could be used for the eight window version as the only thing that changed there was the filling in of the windows.You might be able to find these drawings on line.I hope this was of help.

Loftdriver Out

[greenman407]

Thanks, Keep up the good work.

[LOFTDRIVER]

Before I start with this next post may I say a BIG thank you to dennis for supplying the new gill slitts for my
boat.I can have a go at building most things but these were a bit out of my skill range at the present moment.The service from him was first class. The reason I needed new gills was the mould that a friend made for me was a bit past it.I have photos of the old ( my sad working of ) and the ones supplied by dennis . As you can see the new ones are a bit bigger than my old ones but this will only help the propulsion.The first thing I did was to make the hole a bit bigger to put the new gills in.Now there is not a
lot of surface area to glue these in or into so I made up some plastic card backing plates that look like large window frames and glued these in with 24 hr arildite (two part epoxy glue)The gills them selves were propaired by cutting out the openings and filing to shape .The backes were also given a filing to make a concave shape on the back to give the gill a more gill like shape.The photo showes the backing plate fixed into position.More to follow

Loftdriver out

[LOFTDRIVER]

Winter is still with us here in the uk .As a result the loft/workshop is still on the cold side.The odd good day we have had has produced a spell of modelling that is documented here.My aim at the monent is to get the back end finished so that testing can start.
I need to do this before the weed monster infests my testing lake,also the queens wasps will soon be about making modelling an even more dangerous pursuit than normal.As this is a follow on from the last post I will carry on from were I left of.The gills had been proparaired and all the backing plates had been installed.The next job was to prime the inside of the propulsion tubes and to paint the satin black.The holes were masked of and sraying sarted.This was done with spay cans from the local car shop.As you can see my masking skills are rather primative but I did not get paint on any of the important bits.Once this had all been done the place were the glue was going was roughed up to give the glue something to key onto.This needs to be done as the joining surfaces are quite smooth.The next thing to do was to glue the parts in place.I sarted with lower gills first then did the two upper ones ,making sure they lined up.This was done with the 24 hr glue.As the photos show they are now in place ,all I need to do if fill in the gaps annd tidy it all up.Enjoy the photos

Loftdriver out

[Subculture]

Good stuff, Alan. Any progress with the ballast system?

[LOFTDRIVER]

Hello Subculture,
I have decided to give your idea for a ballast system ego.The main body of the tank has
been made from 5 inch drain pipe.This will be blancked of with thick plastic sheet to give me the baffle plates to prevent water movement.Also the tank has been made in sections to make it easier to put in the hull.I will post some photos of it soon but I have car insurance etc to pay for first .Normall thing life getting in the way of the hobby? The reserve tank at the moment looks like it will be some sort of gas or
air system.I have the room in the forward water tight cylinder to fit it in but it will all boil down to testing at the lake.I want to finally get all the back end finished by next weekend,then I can start getting all the cylinders etc fitted back into the boat for testing.Just a few more things to do to get her wet again.Watch this post.

Loftdriver Out