HMK 1/72 Permit - USS Plunger

[Slats]

I ordered from Joel at HMK many many months back a 1/72 Permit kit, a couple of months the kit arrived, but its only been in the last few days I could get on to it.

Herein is going to be my assembly of this amazing kit. You will note I use the term assembly - its appropriate to call it that as its not building per se. The kit is a feat of precision structural engineering and Joel demonstrates a very high degree of attention to detail leaving the end assembler with what should be a very straight forward build (assembly). What is most apparent from the kit is how complete it is. Joel supplies just about everything you need to get this lady wet save for tools, (although some allen keys are included), paint, adhesives, ballast, WTC.

The kit purely from an out of the box perspective gets top marks, in terms of what you won't have to worry about. Its packaged carefully and methodically, and comes complete with parts list and whopping great manual of construction, and plans.

I hope to give Joel's fine kit justice here at SDs and expect all to jump on me if and when I head astray.

Film at 11.
The fun starts now.

[Slats]

Ok first order of business is to get a good spot to work.

Here you can see I have mounted the plans on the wall and have a whole workshop bench cleared for the work.

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?albumid=39&pictureid=526

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?albumid=39&pictureid=523

Next order of business is to carefully inspect you have all the parts - I think I do, there are some small parts that I made need help ID'ing as the build progresses.

Parts packed in bags - great for keeping them all together.
http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?albumid=39&pictureid=524

That great manual and parts list
http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?albumid=39&pictureid=525

After parts ID, you need to wash any mold release still present on the parts off. The instructions recommend some dish washing liquid and soap pad in some water, I prefer this plus a light 1200 wet and dry once over. This parts clean up is necessary - don't do this and you will have poor adhesion throughout the assembly and a resulting mess. Paint also won't adhere well.

Shown below is not a defect but some green film like mold agent left on. This is not laziness on Joel's part, but rather an extra protective layer that is handy for the shipping process.

http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?albumid=39&pictureid=527

Parts after washing - this shot shows the mass of what's included
http://forum.sub-driver.com/picture.php?albumid=39&pictureid=528

[Subculture]

Probably the most slippery class built, hope you'll run it fast.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Two points:

I agree with all the kind words John said about this kit -- I have one too and can't wait to get to it. Joel is an amazing talent and this kit is a killer! It's official now, I truely hate Joel.

And, if I'm not mistaken (I've just filled the order placed through Caswell) John will be installing our two-motor-on-one-shaft 3.5 SubDriver; that's two 550 motors working one shaft through a 5:1 gear reduction.

That should swing the 1/72 PERMIT's big wheel with a great deal of authority, Andy! That boat will scream! Pictures of that prim-mover below.

Hey, John: how do you paste pictures in the text? ... I'm such a dumb-ass at this.

David,

[Slats]

Hi David,
yes Indeed - the power plant I have ordered will be for this Permit. Mike and Lance now need to take my money and ship it!

A quick question David, I have told Joel, that I will use the Carbon firbe prop supplied, but I was thinking of going the brass route. To take advantage of all that torque on offer what are your thoughts on the supplied carbon propeller versus going brass?

Re posting photos.
Simple.
1- Go to your user CP - make a photo album, upload photos.
2- Open a second window of SD Forum
3- In the second window - write up your post to the board.
4- Go back to the other window with your photo album and open up the photo you want to stick in you post. You will see the code below the photo begin with [IMG\. Copy the whole line.
5-Go to the window where the post is and paste the line in.
Presto - large photos in your post.

J

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Hi David,
yes Indeed - the power plant I have ordered will be for this Permit. Mike and Lance now need to take my money and ship it!

A quick question David, I have told Joel, that I will use the Carbon firbe prop supplied, but I was thinking of going the brass route. To take advantage of all that torque on offer what are your thoughts on the supplied carbon propeller versus going brass?...

John,

Thanks for the dope on the photos. I'll give it a shot after I address this post.

Good, I want to see what you do with that motor-bulkhead.

We're crossing the line where resin (even re-enforced resin) and white-metal propellers will fail with the higher loads being presented with the higher torque running gear. Time to go brass (cast or soldered).

God! ... I hate wax work!

David,

[Slats]

Probably the most slippery class built, hope you'll run it fast.

Yes it will move - I have assembled a 1/72 Permit many years back - in fact it was my first scale RC sub. This was a Ships N Things Permit - fairly basic but good fun for the price I paid. That sub was very quick. Speed aside, nothing I like more than creepin along at the lake and sneaking up on people. The boat will have a couple or maybe 4 Merriman warshots - when there ready.

For the new guys out there - high speed in blue water ops like a deep lake should be avoided until you are confident at the helm and can control the boat at PD. I tend to go nuts for speed in controlled waters like olympic pools.

J

[ManOwaR]

John,
I can't wait to see how this boat is going to look. I know it will be good, because judging by how beat up and worn out that poor work bench and vise of yours looks means this won't be your first canoe ride...the mark of the craftsman!

As always, feel free to ask any questions and I'll do my best to get an answer to you promtly.

Joel

[Slats]

David,
I am having a tough time getting my head around why two motors through the g/ box will mean better run times. I get why the torque increases, but the electrical load of two motors is still puzzling on battery draw....Is this because the motors are sharing the work that the draw is less?

J

Joel,
Thanks -I try to build a little every couple of days.

Mike,
sent you an e-mail re the brass prop. Raboech make em.
The one you previously got for me might be ok.
J

[Slats]

Ok the brass prop required is made by Raboesch Precision Engineering no.179-17 its 63mm diameter, 7 blade Scimitar, right hander.

Mike stocks Raboesch props but not sure if he has these in stock.
J

[Subculture]

Prefer Prop Shop. Solid lost wax cast in silicone bronze. Mmmm!

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

David,
I am having a tough time getting my head around why two motors through the g/ box will mean better run times. I get why the torque increases, but the electrical load of two motors is still puzzling on battery draw....Is this because the motors are sharing the work that the draw is less?

J

Joel,
Thanks -I try to build a little every couple of days.

Mike,
sent you an e-mail re the brass prop. Raboech make em.
The one you previously got for me might be ok.
J


That's right, John, I figure two motors, splitting the load, will be a bit more efficient than a single motor working at its top-end. So -- and only practical experiment will reveal if this is true or not -- I figure that you'll be cruising along most of the time at a 1/3 bell, and will high-throttle the thing for only a fraction of the total run time between charges. The two motors will give you a bit better total propulsive efficiency than a single like motor, and they will give you the kick-ass torque at the top end to make this submarine of yours fly.

You'll likely be the first guy in the water with this type SD, so your report from the field will tell the tale as to wether or not I've got this right.

You're my lab-rat, pal.

David,

[Slats]

Well the lab rat build continues.....

The lab rat like his - lungs - whenever you are doing any sanding, cutting, or glassing - you need protection.
http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2176

Whenever I build a sub - I make what Cameron Glassford here in Australia calls a strong back stand. Its basically a flat piece of wood that has two sides to it. The job of this is not a boat stand but to enable the hull to be firmly secured whilst I do various things to it.
http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2198

http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2199

Above, here you can see some the sub with some flood hole started in her with the whole lower hull sitting in the strong back. The width of the two side timbers is just enough to take the extreme beam of the hull. If you are working alone and lets face we all do it I find this a nice platform to keep the boat firmly in position.

Next item of business is the Z cut - where you cut off a lower bow section - adjoin it to the forward bow, cut off an upper tail cone section and adjoin it to the lower hull. In doing so you remove with two equal cuts an equal amount of materrial in the cuts themseleves and hence should get a seamless join for and aft for the hulls.

Joel's instructions recommended a 3" cut forward in the bow of the lower hull and a 3.5" cut in the stern section. Joel has advised me since that you can just lop off the bow on the demarcation line of the sonar dome and for the rear cut just aft of the MBT vent - so as to have an adjoining screw lookalike a twin MBT. I did precisely this for the bow and for the stern I made the cut just AHEAD of the MBT - as I prefer to try and seal this sucker with one screw but should have taken Joel's advice here. I can still install a rear securing screw if necessary, and it will be.

Here you can see the strong back stand - where everything is at right angles - I use it with a 3" diameter WTC lexan tube to mark up my stern cut. In making these cuts I prefer taking my time with a razor hobby saw, and gentle score a groove for the blade to follow.
http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2189

I use the sonar demarcation line to cut the lower bow off.
http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2196

http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2185

Rough up the insides of the bow pieces and the stern cone pieces.
http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2178
This is so to have good adhesion of joining the lower bow to upper hull, and upper cone piece to the lower hull. Joel recommends the initial joining is via ZAP CA type glue and some baking soda to catalize this - I prefer kicker via a dropper. Joel recommends that the join is then made permanent with fibreglass tape in epoxy resin. I am unsure as to what fibreglass tape is so I simply cut out some fibreglass matting and applied it with expoxy resin. - Same effect I guess.

The initial join upper hull to lower bow piece with CA glue
http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2187

http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2184

After CA preliminary adhesion of the lower bow piece and upper cone tail section the sub should come back together neatly.
http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2181

[Slats]

Here you see construction of a pressure ballast tank - USS Plunger and my HMAS Rankin will feature a new type of WTC / SD.
Free flood main BT that clears at PD via a snort. This main tank takes to the boat to decks awash from the correct surface trim but it will not take her down further. A geared pump and solenoid check valve which takes the sub all the way down via a sealed tank within the centre of the main BT. This small tank under pressure also surfaces the boat back to decks awash from depth. I was going to use a sphere but all the sphere toilet valves I could get here were either two big to fit into the 3.5" lexan or too small to effectively be a trim tank or final submerge surface tank. The PVC fittings are pressure ones and are cemented together with pressure cement. I will need a couple of small baffles in this tank. I have been using PVC pressure tanks for years as a sole ballast tank - much bigger than this of course but this new combination system of tank within a free flood tank means minimising slosh and heaps of baffles. It also means a smaller tank - as having this setup as a main ballast tank means about 40% will be compressed air.
http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2180


OK - here is where I need help - Joel and or those who know much of these boats post 79' details and the intro of the mini sail - can you please ID herein what is what and where it goes. My plans do not show the mini sail config.
Joel in his later version of this kit now supplies a fantastic scope rack - a guide system where by you have good firm support of the scopes etc - but you must install this BEFORE the sail planes. So please jump in here and tell me where things go please.
Thanks
http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2186

http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2179

[Slats]

Next up if I may digress a little - here is an impending space problem with the Permit's and for that matter Sturgeon's and LAs, should you wish to fit torpedos. The angle off the bow (10 degrees - please correct me), will invade a 3.5" cylinders space. My work around will be a 2" tube for the battery adjoined to a bigger 3.5" cylinder.

http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2197

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

So far, so good, John.

David,

[ManOwaR]

Hi John,
Looking at your bottom picture of the masts from left to right:
The first scope is the new BRD mast, it goes in the mini sail
The old BRD mast, number 7 from the left is not used anymore
Number 10 is the UFF IF antena and is not used anymore as the mini sail takes it spot. That antena is now the wart on top of the snorkel (number 9)
Number 14 the last mast on your picture is the new observation scope. This is now located where the old BRD mast was right in front of the attack scope
Number two is prop dunce cap
three is a hull mounted light
Four and Five are flagstaffs
Six is the helical sail mounted rotating light
Seven and eight are not used on your sail
Ten is the radar
Twelve is the MF/HF antena and still goes where it used to
Thirteen is the attack scope and still goes to the same spot

I hope this makes sense?

[ManOwaR]

As for the rack itself, it is imperitive that it is installed correctly before going onto tthe sailplane bearings. Cut out all your mast holes on the sail first, you have to ensure that each mast has room to fit into it. The holes should be slightly larger than the scope shaft just like on the real boats.

Next you can install the rack. It should be able to slide in and out of the sail without much trouble. If not you can use some heavy grit sandpaper on a wood block and do a little trimming. You don't want the rack to distort the sail walls if you have to force it in Slide to the top and place your scopes in and check for straightness in relation to the sail. If the angle is off (it was slightly on my Jack) simply remove the rack and block sand along the top and side opposite of which way the scopes lean. Then sand along the bottom and side of the rack on the opposite side. I opened the cockpit on my boat and you have here too. The scope rack should come flush to the front of the cockpit opening

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u319/Rapperkiller/P1012037.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u319/Rapperkiller/P1012038.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u319/Rapperkiller/P1012039.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u319/Rapperkiller/P1012042.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u319/Rapperkiller/Permit%20Jack%20Promos%2009/P1012174.jpg

[Slats]

Joel,
thanks heaps - the Jack is gorgeous
J

[ManOwaR]

Thanks very much John. Yours will be awesome because you have the 79 version kit (cooler looking in my opinion) and you're an ol' hand at this...You're doing good sofar!

[Slats]

The only thing about the 79 that I don't like, if my read of the painting scheme is right is she will be all black and technically without any hull or sail numbers.
Might just add them anyway.
J

[Slats]

Hey Joel,
could you please post a photo of the complete Jack's sail top with all those scopes in place.
Thanks
J

[ManOwaR]

Hi John,
Here's a pic and some pointers on the paint colours

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u319/Rapperkiller/Permit%20Jack%20Promos%2009/P1012213.jpg



I used Sikkens urethane automotives for all the colours. I had the auto shop mix up the anti foul although I think it needs more brown in it. I have a pint of white and a pint of black and I custom mix my colours. All of the Permits throughout their service lives had red anti foul. The navy only started going all black in the 90's so you will be 100% safe by painting it with antifoul applied. Now, because they wanted anti foul below the water line but didn't want that bright red visible from the air, they painted anti foul up to the surface line then painted the black over top of it. The result was a purple grey colour. I made this colour by mixing about 50% red oxide and 50% very dark grey mix. This very dark grey (almost black) was mixed just slightly lighter than the anti skid which only had a few drops of white in it. That anti skid can also be painted lighter than the very dark grey which is representative of being wet as well. I chose dark and clear coated it to an orange peal (no reducer at all and sprayed farther away than normal). Scopes were a light grey and the leopard spots I just used a black sharpie. I used an automotive urethane clear to seal it all.

The 79s didn't have the big water line bow number or the actual unit name farther aft. They did put the sail numbers on when in port though. Make sure you look at pictures of the real boat, they differed with draft marks and the amount applied...
Joel

[Slats]

Thanks Joel,
I'll have to get some more info of you later on the orange peel effect for the anti-skid. Just beautiful.
J

[Slats]

The USS Plunger is coming along nicely - and its been about a month or so since I updated this thread I hope to have an update in the next day or so.
The excuse - Tales of the South Pacific - been walking in the footsteps of James A Michener's war time experience on Vanuatu's islands and the islands of New Calendonia
If you have an opportunity do so or perahps check out the 1948 Pulitzer Prize for Fiction "Tales of the South Pacific". A ripping yarn and a great work of literature.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Michener
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_of_the_South_Pacific

http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2460

The USS Plunger work completed thus far:
HULL:
-upper and lower halves mate - indexing lips fore and aft install - side
indexing lips installed.
-Tabs -no need on your hull to use them - its too perfect - yes guys the alignment is that good.
-screw connections fore and aft installed
-rear stabilsers and planes installed
-openings drilled out
-torpedo tube shutter openings installed (the Merriman tubes will telescope inside).
-shaft bearing installed

SAIL:
-upper opennings
-scope rack installed
-screws for mating to hull installed
-bearings installed
-sail planes installed and linkage to low hull

Anyway film or pictures at 11.

[Slats]

ok the project thus far last time around saw the hull Z cuts being made and affixing the respective upper tail cone to the lower hull, and lower sonar dome to upper.
Further all the lower drain holes were openned up.

Next order of business was to work on the hull indexing lips.

The kit comes with what I call 4 indexing lips.
2 conical type lips that mate with the cross sectional upper tail cone and lower bow dome, and 2 large side indexing lips.
All are important to install correctly and get right. The 2 conical types offer cross sectional support and double duty as the nut holders to take 2 screws to hold the whole thing together and the 2 lateral lips ensure alignment along the length of the hull.

It is crucially important that the surface areas are roughed up to ensure proper adhesion of the surfaces.
If you own a Dremel you might have included in the kit a small oblong type abrasive stone. I make use of this for rough up surfaces. I also use this pet piece of granite.

http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2470

here you can see a roughed up side indexing lip
http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2473

Joel reports that the side indexing lips are a tad big (too high) and you can cut these back if you like. I'd aim for around 1/2" being the lip above the lower hull. Any higher and you risk the size of the lips starting to encroach on the round upper hull a tad too much and you might experience some hull bulging. That said the long indexing lips Joel supplies are contoured very much to the hull's shape so it should not be too much of a problem. One area where upper hull bulging is apparent is close to the upper fixed conical stern join. This is remedied after installation of the side lips by tapering the lip downwards about 2-3 inches back from the join.
Other consideration for installing the lips are torpedoes - I pre fitted the exit ports for the fish. The Merriman designed system will telescope inside.

Here you see the allowance I made for the torpedoes in the indexing lips - of course you could simple cut the torpedo exit points through both the hull and the lips. Both ways are valid.
http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2480

Here you see the lips clamped in place whilst the expoxy drys.
http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2475

http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2467

I then follwed Joel's great instructions on installing the shaft bearing. Be sure to get the alignment right. I was planning on using the carbon prop that Joel supplies but the recent purchase of the new Subdriver 3.5" Twin motor single shaft means I'll be heading to brass. If you do get the Raboesch prop for this kit, one of the advantages is a neat locking nut which is concealed behind the props boss. I have the prop on order the Collins Class Raboesch prop is shown here.

http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2463

http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2482

[Slats]

For those who are interested here are the torpedo exit tubes I made from some K&S Brass tubing.

http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2464


At this stage in the assembly the plans call for the installation of some tabs into the upper hull to keep and hold true the hull alignment. Joel supplies these and boy over the years I wish I had thought of using something similar with some of the hulls I have worked on. In fact David's Alfa Cabal report shows the use of these well. Its a big call then when I say whilst I appreciate their inclusion in the kit, I cannot see the use with Joel's Permit. I have never had a more perfectly manufactured submarine hull period.

At this stage the main hull assembly is done save for appendages, sail, and inner WTC supports.

The next order of assembly is the stern planes and rear horizontal supports / stabilsers. Take your time here.
Joel includes stainless screws with allen key heads that serve as the outer axel through the plane and support structure, an inner brass piece goes through the planes most inward section and through the hull bearing to mate with a control U bracket / horn. Note very well that this inner brass piece is installed from inside the hull. You will need long nose pliers for the job.

The bearings are the first bits installed by drilling out 5/32" holes at the dimple marks on the hull - also check the plans.
You can apply a drop of CA to the brass part of the bearing and push fit it in place. You should of course check the aligment of both bearings before any CA is applied.

Here you can see the bearings in place and the hull roughed up to bond with the horizontal fixed stabilisers.
http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2462

As an addition to the bonding process I added a brass tabs into the stabilsers and drilled mating holes in the hull - probably overkill on my part.
http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2476

Joel recomends you expoxy these in place I used Resin loaded with GRP strands - either method is fine, BUT roughing up both the inner stabiliser surface and the hull is crucial.

Here you see the installed rear planes in obvious need of a clean up - as is the whole boat.
http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2461

[Slats]

I'll be getting back into this assembly very soon - been otherwise fully occupied dealing with nanny state issues surrounding the hobby in Australia.

[Slats]

Heading down the home stretch
just need to pop in a WTC get a ballasted and do some final detailing.

http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4801

http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4799

http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4795

J

[Slats]

next up sail plane linkage - film (thanks to the Camera being fixed) in a day or so.
J

[Slats]

Here's the sail plane linkage added, this utilises Joel's excellent included supports.
Note well the supports need to be positioned - forward and away from the 3.5" SD area, else the supports will clash with the SD height.

http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5677&d=1295332209

You need to make sure the movement is smooth, here a klick-on magnet demonstrates that it won't pull away or off.

http://forum.sub-driver.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5673&d=1295332165