Fitting Sub-Driver into Hull

[toppack]

David,
I'm thinking about using your idea of using Rubber-bands hooked over screws thru bulkheads, to hold the SD snugly into hull.
Do you still consider that a good way to do it?
Attaching velcro is more difficult isn't it, even tho velcro does Look good?

[Kazzer]

I LOVE Velcro. I use a contact adhesive to glue it into my hulls. It is SO much easier to connect than those rubber bands, which ALWAYS break when I never have a spare. Velco makes some with little buckles on them. They are really quick to operate.

[toppack]

Does the Velcro go all the way around the SD (inside bottom of hull) and glued at keel, or under lead-ballast-weight?

[Kazzer]

Yes, it goes all the way around and overlaps. Just glue the underside of it to the hull. If you place the weights on top of the Velcro, that will help the overall bond, as the weight is trapping the Velcro. On some models I have trapped the Velcro under the SD Saddles.

Sorry, I don't have my Seaview yet (Hint- hint - Mr M) so I can't take a photo of it. David likes rubber bands, so he won't be a bit of help here.

:)

[toppack]

Yes, I used to use rubber-bands to hold Wings on airplanes, so they do seem to be a 'Natural' here, but I'm starting to like the Velcro idea. I think I'll drill the screw-holes in hull-bulkheads, before glueing them in, just in case, but I'll give the Velcro a Try. :)
Thanks,

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Yes, I used to use rubber-bands to hold Wings on airplanes, so they do seem to be a 'Natural' here, but I'm starting to like the Velcro idea. I think I'll drill the screw-holes in hull-bulkheads, before glueing them in, just in case, but I'll give the Velcro a Try. :)
Thanks,

You two anal-retentive types are way over-thinking this!!!!

David
(simple is good!)

[toppack]

But we are 'Modern, Up to Date' 'anal-retentives'. :D LOL :D

[toppack]

I found some Velcro strips, left over from another project, so another concern has been solved.

[toppack]

I'm now working on modification of rudder and aft dive-planes.
I didn't realize, until now, what a 'Tight Little Rear' she has. :D
Cramming the linkage arms in a 1" square space is not easy. I think I'll leave the aft torpedo-tube-doors out, the rudder-horn hits it and the opening will be good for visual inspection of linkage.
Determining the assembly sequence of those parts is a real callenge, since you can very easily do something that will not let you get to other parts. :confused:

[toppack]

I would sure like to see a Cabal-report or other instructional-video on proper procedure for trimming Ballast-weight and Floation-foam for optimum operation?
Or is that procedure somewhere already?
I can work up my own plan but experienced instruction would be very helpful. :)

So far the plan has been to stuff in as much Flotation-foam as possible, then put it in the hot-tub to determine how much lead to put in 'er keel, to keep 'er bearly afloat, with an air bubble in the SD.
Does that sound about right???

Of course a young lady or two , in the hot-tub, to help! :)
__________________

[toppack]

Was the above Question too Silly or Complicated, to answer? :o

(the young Ladies are still waitin') :D

[Kazzer]

SEE
http://support.caswellplating.com/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=120&nav=0,5,6



Support Center » Downloads » R/C Modeling Files » Model Building General Instructions » ESTABLISHING SURFACE & SUBMERGED TRIM

[toppack]

Thanks, Mike
That is very Helpful. :)

[toppack]

There's one statment in the 'ballast instructions' I don't understand,tho ? :confused:


No foam should be placed higher than the models designed water line

Are you saying that it will not sink with that much flotation-foam in it, (without excessive lead-weight)?
I can see that high foam will do nothing when fully surfaced, but it seems that high in hull is the main place the foam should be, to stabilize roll, when under water or at periscope depth?

I need to know because I've put foam everywhere it will fit, (and not interfear with something), including above SD in deck assembly.
Should I remove some of it, or try it the way it is?

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

There's one statment in the 'ballast instructions' I don't understand,tho ? :confused:



Are you saying that it will not sink with that much flotation-foam in it, (without excessive lead-weight)?
I can see that high foam will do nothing when fully surfaced, but it seems that high in hull is the main place the foam should be, to stabilize roll, when under water or at periscope depth?

I need to know because I've put foam everywhere it will fit, (and not interfear with something), including above SD in deck assembly.
Should I remove some of it, or try it the way it is?

You're two observations are correct: Foam placed higher than the boats designed waterline does nothing to generate buoyancy in surfaced trim; and that the ideal means of maximizing the boats roll stability is to place the foam as high in the structure as possible.

If the boat, in surface trim, sits on or close to the designed waterline (indicated in the excellent Revell instruction booklet, near the back), then, yes add foam into the above waterline areas of the hull to compensate for submerged trim. No harm, no foul -- doing so in fact increases roll stability (submerged).

But, you have to be pragmatic here -- the physical confines of the hull dictate what you can and can not do with the foam. Much of it will be lower than you want, and you have to deal with that.

If you've crammed as much foam in the hull as you can and the boat is still negatively buoyant in submerged trim (ballast tank full), then remove one of the fixed weights from the keel.

David,

[toppack]

Okay, Thanks, I understand. :)

[toppack]

I just realized something about the linkage-Magnets, provided with sub-driver. The N & S poles of the magnets can be oriented so they connect only the proper way and will be pushed apart if trying to make a wrong connection. Since I'm only using 2 sets, for rudder and dive-planes, I can never get any of the linkage accidentally hooked up wrong, when installing the SD. :)

[toppack]

The lead weight I now have in the Gato hull keel is 520.grams or 1.15 lb. Is that enough to start the balance process or should I change it?

(The battery pack I'm using weighs 160.grams or .35 lb.)

[toppack]

The lead weight I now have in the Gato hull keel is 520.grams or 1.15 lb. Is that enough to start the balance process or should I change it?

(The battery pack I'm using weighs 160.grams or .35 lb.)

I remember reading the Weight of the lead required, somewhere, but now can not find it ??? (I think it was for Gato)
Anyone know where that was or what the weight is? I need an estimate of total keel-ballast-weight?

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

I just realized something about the linkage-Magnets, provided with sub-driver. The N & S poles of the magnets can be oriented so they connect only the proper way and will be pushed apart if trying to make a wrong connection. Since I'm only using 2 sets, for rudder and dive-planes, I can never get any of the linkage accidentally hooked up wrong, when installing the SD. :)

And that's something I should mention in the SD instructions I'm currently writing. Thanks for the reminder.

David,

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

I remember reading the Weight of the lead required, somewhere, but now can not find it ??? (I think it was for Gato)
Anyone know where that was or what the weight is? I need an estimate of total keel-ballast-weight?

Go with what you have there and tell us how it works for you. Might alter what I've previously recommended.

David,

[toppack]

Okay, will do.
Thanks,

[Kazzer]

Total Weight is: 1 lb 12 oz

see
http://www.caswellplating.com/models/weights.html

[toppack]

Thanks, Mike, I was looking everywhere but there. ;)

[submaster]

I am new to RC subs and currently working on a Revell VII Sub using the Caswell conversion kit. Is there anywhere on this site showing proper installment (placement) of this kit into hull. There were no instructions included with the sub driver.

[toppack]

David,
Someday, you really need to find someone to make some Instruction booklets for these things. I know it will be a pain, since there are so many sizes and varities, but it will make a lot of us Newbies Happy. :)
You want to keep the customers Happy, don't you? ;)

[toppack]

I am new to RC subs and currently working on a Revell VII Sub using the Caswell conversion kit. Is there anywhere on this site showing proper installment (placement) of this kit into hull. There were no instructions included with the sub driver.

We were just discussing your problem on another forum section. Check this out:
http://forum.sub-driver.com/showthread.php?p=1297#post1297

All I can suggest is to use your Creative-Logic, to Get 'er Done. :)
Because written instructions on something like this would be almost the size of a set of encyclopedias to cover every aspect of assembly.
If you have specific questions about certain parts of it, we can help guide you to that Info.

[Kazzer]

Look for the data already done.

Sub-driver in the 'Technical Support' dept. (http://support.caswellplating.com/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=view&parentcategoryid=17&pcid=5&nav=0,5)

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

David,
Someday, you really need to find someone to make some Instruction booklets for these things. I know it will be a pain, since there are so many sizes and varities, but it will make a lot of us Newbies Happy. :)
You want to keep the customers Happy, don't you? ;)

You're right. I've started with full-blown written instructions for our line of products. Clearly, the Cabal Reports are fine for what they are, but nothing beats a well illustrated narrative when it comes time to assemble and set-up a product -- and we're working on those.

We've started in on the SubDriver booklets. So far we have finished and have put on the net our 3.5" SubDriver and 2" SEAVIEW SubDriver booklets. Concurrently with that we'll put together written instructions for the submarine kits we offer.

This Spring Mr. Caswell is coming over to assist me as we get more informative videos done about how to assemble, set-up, and operate our products.

We're dancing as fast as we can -- this is, after all, pretty much a two-man operation (me and Mr. Caswell).

David,

[Nuke Power]

submaster
if you are still having issues with the fit up of the sub driver in your type 7 just say something and I can set you up. with pictures and instructions.

[submaster]

Thanks for all the replies. I should have been more direct I have all the control surfaces fabricated and fitted, but not secured. The big ? is, I have the sub-driver positioned right up against the forward bulk-head area. Would this b suitable positioning or is there a reference of how many inches from the bow or to the aft/stern. I also have the sub-driver sitting at the bottom of the hull. Does this need to be raised 1/16th or and 1/8 of an inch or is this positioning correct. Being that this is my 1st sub, I am also going to need easy access for easy removal, any suggestions for cut lines for easy access would b greatly appreciated.

[toppack]

The big ? is, I have the sub-driver positioned right up against the forward bulk-head area. Would this b suitable positioning or is there a reference of how many inches from the bow or to the aft/stern. I also have the sub-driver sitting at the bottom of the hull. Does this need to be raised 1/16th or and 1/8 of an inch or is this positioning correct. Being that this is my 1st sub, I am also going to need easy access for easy removal, any suggestions for cut lines for easy access would b greatly appreciated.

David,
I'll need that Info Also, when I get back to working on the VII?
We need some detailed positioning measurements ???
Guesstamation just don't Cut-it, in this balancing-act. :D LOL :D
Thanks,

[Nuke Power]

I made the sub driver sit as low as possible. I think I left about 1/16" between the sub driver and the hull. The position of the SD inside the boat is dictated by the drive shaft set up you are using. The sub driver is effective with it positioned in the middle of the sub. Is this helpful or is more information required?

[Nuke Power]

Position the sub driver 10" from the bow of the boat and you should have success. To make the saddles for the sub driver I simply layed the SD endcap ontop of the sadles drew a line and then cut them out. You can see in the photos how I chopped my top. I also reinforced the entire upper deck with styrene plastic. If I were to do this again I would do it a bit more sparrignly or perhaps use a lighter material like carbon L frames. Keepin the weight off the boat and as low as possible is the key here. The only weight you want ot add is keel weight because this boat needs the stability . Let me tell you something though, once you get her together she will be a screamer. Driving the thing reminds me of watching the nautilus from the league of extrordinary gentlemen. Its like a knife through butter :)

[toppack]

Are the black marks on outside of hull where the plastic-hull-bulkheads are, inside hull?
I could go compare it to mine but easier to just ask. :D LOL :D

[Nuke Power]

Thanx for making me take it apart toppack it was quite happy how it was :)

Here are some shots of the removal and the saddles installed. Since I am sure you are going to ask toppack..... The long slot holes you see are from the removal of ballast bars. Initially David and I loaded the keel up with weight. We then discovered that we couldnt jam enough foam in to counter act it so we had to dremel some weight out. The rear end is especially sensitive to weight. I wold beging with the mid section. The fwd section is very capable of supporting 2 lipo packs in parallel though.

[Nuke Power]

the plastic bulkheads go exactly where the model book revel supplied tell you to put them.

[Nuke Power]

The black marks are where I decided to put the sub driver in the boat. They were merely external refrence points.

[Nuke Power]

toppack do you actually read my posts? We covered the first question. And that answer by deductive reasoning will give you the second answer...

Oh screw it just send it to me and I will build it for you...... for a small stack of bejamins :)

[toppack]

Oops, I just saw your post about SD being 10" from bow.
I missed it before.
I deleted the last question, hopeing you had not read it yet, Sorry.:D
I think that's all that I needed for mine.
Thanks,

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Excellent work and a very coherent presentation. Very useful, Kevin. Thanks.

David,

[Nuke Power]

Well someone has to do your job while your locked in the cave!