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SS-581 Blueback

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  • #46
    17 April 2017
    Trimming
    Well I put the recommended amount of lead into the Blueback, ≈ 24 oz.
    First time
    I placed 10.45 oz. in the sonar dome, two 5 oz. bars around the indexing pin–Velcro strap foundation, total ≈ 20.5 oz. and WTC installed. There isn’t enough foam in Rock Hill to get it off the bottom of the dive tank. I changed the weight in the sonar dome to 6.80 oz., two 5 oz. bars around the WTC peg holder, total ≈ 16.85 oz. and WTC installed. Still on the bottom of the dive tank with a lot of foam around it. I know that I cannot get all the external foam into the internal available space with it still on bottom of test tank.

    Second time
    Remove it from dive tank and charged batteries. Remove previous lead from inside it. Initially no lead in sonar dome, changed the indexing pin–Velcro strap foundation lead to two bars, 3.55 oz., and WTC. Not level. Added about 3.5 oz. of external lead forward of the sail (total lead weight 10.55 oz.). The weights were hung from fishing line across the hull and all foam was external attached with rubber bands. I was able to vent the ballast tanks and submerge level, then using the Low Pressure Blower to surface and the boat achieved the proper surfaced stance. The WTC worked just the way it as described. Added just enough foam after diving that the top of the sail just broaching the surface. Looks like everything is good. There was little to no water in the WTC this time due it not being rolled to vent the ballast tank. I need to adjust the internal vent valve very slow diving. The hull seems to be holding air during the slow angled stationary towards the rear of hull. It might need to add additional hull vent midships or toward the engine room, will make this change if needed after the first rubber band pool trial.

    Third time
    One more time to check weight. I was able to get a level submerged boat with the sail just broaching the surface, no WTC installed. The weight were hung from fishing line and the foam was held in place by the rubber bands, all loading was external. The sonar dome weight ≈ 3.5 oz. and one bar of 4.15oz. above the indexing pin–Velcro strap foundation, total weight 7.65 oz.

    I’m going back to the second time method and retrim it this time. It seem to work for me. The only thing that is questionable is the difference of total weight from what was recommended (≈24oz.) to what actually works (≈10.55 oz.) in the tub, I mean the dive tank. But if it works life is good. The earth is round you can get there by several different routes.

    If my buddy uncovers his pool next weekend, I will start sea trails using the second method of trimming in a larger tank (swimming pool) and to see if maintains the zero or near bubble at speed, surfacing time, diving time and if it seems to have the correct lead weight or if I'm in for uncontrollable angles and dangles or long dive times.

    If the rubber band pool trial is successful then I'm down to the cosmetics, body work, painting (another coat of gray, black and red lead), hull numbers, and which if any mast & antennas to attach. Still need to figure out an easy way to add camo to the mast fairings. What are the black and red lead colors in corresponding car paint? I saw it on here before and didn't write them down. My friend that owns a body shop that let me use his paint booth to air brush it the first time with the gray primer said that he will mix the colors for me since its such a small amount of paint. I bought a quart of Nasson 421-23, gray. I have enough to gray primer paint more boats than I will ever build.

    If I don't get instructed too bad this time I think I see a light at the end of the tunnel, of course it could be ole number 97 at full throttle trying to make Spencer on time, coming at me also.

    Ernie

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by SSN687 View Post
      17 April 2017
      Trimming
      Well I put the recommended amount of lead into the Blueback, ≈ 24 oz.
      First time
      I placed 10.45 oz. in the sonar dome, two 5 oz. bars around the indexing pin–Velcro strap foundation, total ≈ 20.5 oz. and WTC installed. There isn’t enough foam in Rock Hill to get it off the bottom of the dive tank. I changed the weight in the sonar dome to 6.80 oz., two 5 oz. bars around the WTC peg holder, total ≈ 16.85 oz. and WTC installed. Still on the bottom of the dive tank with a lot of foam around it. I know that I cannot get all the external foam into the internal available space with it still on bottom of test tank.

      Second time
      Remove it from dive tank and charged batteries. Remove previous lead from inside it. Initially no lead in sonar dome, changed the indexing pin–Velcro strap foundation lead to two bars, 3.55 oz., and WTC. Not level. Added about 3.5 oz. of external lead forward of the sail (total lead weight 10.55 oz.). The weights were hung from fishing line across the hull and all foam was external attached with rubber bands. I was able to vent the ballast tanks and submerge level, then using the Low Pressure Blower to surface and the boat achieved the proper surfaced stance. The WTC worked just the way it as described. Added just enough foam after diving that the top of the sail just broaching the surface. Looks like everything is good. There was little to no water in the WTC this time due it not being rolled to vent the ballast tank. I need to adjust the internal vent valve very slow diving. The hull seems to be holding air during the slow angled stationary towards the rear of hull. It might need to add additional hull vent midships or toward the engine room, will make this change if needed after the first rubber band pool trial.

      Third time
      One more time to check weight. I was able to get a level submerged boat with the sail just broaching the surface, no WTC installed. The weight were hung from fishing line and the foam was held in place by the rubber bands, all loading was external. The sonar dome weight ≈ 3.5 oz. and one bar of 4.15oz. above the indexing pin–Velcro strap foundation, total weight 7.65 oz.

      I’m going back to the second time method and retrim it this time. It seem to work for me. The only thing that is questionable is the difference of total weight from what was recommended (≈24oz.) to what actually works (≈10.55 oz.) in the tub, I mean the dive tank. But if it works life is good. The earth is round you can get there by several different routes.

      If my buddy uncovers his pool next weekend, I will start sea trails using the second method of trimming in a larger tank (swimming pool) and to see if maintains the zero or near bubble at speed, surfacing time, diving time and if it seems to have the correct lead weight or if I'm in for uncontrollable angles and dangles or long dive times.

      If the rubber band pool trial is successful then I'm down to the cosmetics, body work, painting (another coat of gray, black and red lead), hull numbers, and which if any mast & antennas to attach. Still need to figure out an easy way to add camo to the mast fairings. What are the black and red lead colors in corresponding car paint? I saw it on here before and didn't write them down. My friend that owns a body shop that let me use his paint booth to air brush it the first time with the gray primer said that he will mix the colors for me since its such a small amount of paint. I bought a quart of Nasson 421-23, gray. I have enough to gray primer paint more boats than I will ever build.

      If I don't get instructed too bad this time I think I see a light at the end of the tunnel, of course it could be ole number 97 at full throttle trying to make Spencer on time, coming at me also.

      Ernie
      OK, Ernie!

      We're in the short strokes. That's no train, pal ... you're almost there.

      put a drop of oil into the vent hole. That will speed up the venting of air.

      If the boat won't torque-roll on you too bad, you're gold as far as fixed ballast weight goes.

      OK, black and white you're guy can figure out. The anti-fouling red is: ChromaBase, Spectramaster Red.

      David
      "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

      Comment


      • #48
        18 April 2017

        David
        I talk to my buddy that runs the repair shop this morning. I told him the specific color you gave me last night, ChromaBase, Spectramaster Red. He said that he needs a color code number so he can cross reference that code for his system. You are correct on the black any flat black matte will work but there are a 1000 different shades of red. His colors are indexed by car make, car model, and year since it’s a body shop. I didn’t try his database for US Submarine, SS581, and 1959.

        Thanks
        Ernie

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by SSN687 View Post
          18 April 2017

          David
          I talk to my buddy that runs the repair shop this morning. I told him the specific color you gave me last night, ChromaBase, Spectramaster Red. He said that he needs a color code number so he can cross reference that code for his system. You are correct on the black any flat black matte will work but there are a 1000 different shades of red. His colors are indexed by car make, car model, and year since it’s a body shop. I didn’t try his database for US Submarine, SS581, and 1959.

          Thanks
          Ernie
          Yeah, I didn't think what I gave you would permit a cross for your paint-guy. It was a custom batch based on a paint chip I brought to my refinishing shop for scanning, so no standard to work from. The paint, in the real world is, 'anti-fouling red, #121'. Now, if you, a friend, or the paint-guy has, Federal Standard 595a (Federal Standard Colors, printed 1984), you're in business. The chip is 20109. If you can find that fan-fold index of chips, have him scan 20109 and his machine will mix the right color for you.

          We hav'n fun yet?

          David
          "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

          Comment


          • #50

            30 June 2017

            David,
            I don’t think that my snorkel head valve is getting a good seal. I can suck on the snorkel airline and continue to get small amounts of water when it is submerged, not a good seal. The last Sunday while trimming the Blueback in the swimming pool, I got water (a TBSP or more) in the engine room enough to stop everything from working until pulled it apart to remove the water and allow it to dry out. I have a sponge in the battery compartment it was wet but absorbed most of the water, no standing water. There is not enough room in the engine room for a sponge. Yesterday submerged the WTC in the kitchen sink no water in it and later slowly pressurized it with a bicycle pump, no air bubble from the seals before the caps would start to come off. I was able to suck small amount of water through the safety float valve airline while the WTC was submerged. I have disassembled, reassembled and resealed the safety float valve and found nothing obstructing it.
            During the swimming pool trims the receiver has gotten wet three times but have been able to clean, dry and get it working again. I feel I'm pressing my luck with soaking the receiver. I tried to seal the receiver using CorrosionX, dipping and allowing it to air dry several times but didn’t like the results. I clean the receiver, dried it and sealed the receiver in RTV silicone mold rubber, for making castings. I was able to trim the soft rubber edges it to get into the small engine room of the WTC and retested the coated receiver dry. Due to the size of my Futaba receiver, it was removed from its protective black plastic box which offered no water proofing protection, but resides on the bottom engine room, in the bilges. I have reassembled the engine room and is ready for a submerged retest.
            While the WTC is ready I believe I will still have water in leakage on a fully assembled submerged retest. I believe the problem is in the snorkel head valve seating area.
            The snorkel seating area, the blue disc, is located more towards the front of the brass intake line. While there is limited area under the sail for the floating foam to move, left to right, I think that any movement with the location of the existing seating area, that head valve is not going to get a good seat or seal when the boats dives with any movement.

            I believe if there was enough blue seating material to cover the width of the snorkel float valve and center it on the same radius of allowable movement under the sail, would improve the seal.

            So my questions:

            1. What is the blue seating material on the snorkel float valve or acceptable substitute that can be locally purchased?

            2. Would having some of this blue sealing material around the brass intake line on the upper area improve or make for better seal on the head valve?

            3. What is the name or type of the blue silicone sealer that you use?

            A suggestion for an area of improvement on the WTC end caps:
            1. Modify the WTC end caps, mold an edge tab into the WTC end caps to able to push against the tab and the tube to help remove the end caps.



            Thanks
            Ernie
            Last edited by SSN687; 06-30-2017, 03:13 PM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by SSN687 View Post

              30 June 2017

              David,
              I don’t think that my snorkel head valve is getting a good seal. I can suck on the snorkel airline and continue to get small amounts of water when it is submerged, not a good seal. The last Sunday while trimming the Blueback in the swimming pool, I got water (a TBSP or more) in the engine room enough to stop everything from working until pulled it apart to remove the water and allow it to dry out. I have a sponge in the battery compartment it was wet but absorbed most of the water, no standing water. There is not enough room in the engine room for a sponge. Yesterday submerged the WTC in the kitchen sink no water in it and later slowly pressurized it with a bicycle pump, no air bubble from the seals before the caps would start to come off. I was able to suck small amount of water through the safety float valve airline while the WTC was submerged. I have disassembled, reassembled and resealed the safety float valve and found nothing obstructing it.
              During the swimming pool trims the receiver has gotten wet three times but have been able to clean, dry and get it working again. I feel I'm pressing my luck with soaking the receiver. I tried to seal the receiver using CorrosionX, dipping and allowing it to air dry several times but didn’t like the results. I clean the receiver, dried it and sealed the receiver in RTV silicone mold rubber, for making castings. I was able to trim the soft rubber edges it to get into the small engine room of the WTC and retested the coated receiver dry. Due to the size of my Futaba receiver, it was removed from its protective black plastic box which offered no water proofing protection, but resides on the bottom engine room, in the bilges. I have reassembled the engine room and is ready for a submerged retest.
              While the WTC is ready I believe I will still have water in leakage on a fully assembled submerged retest. I believe the problem is in the snorkel head valve seating area.
              The snorkel seating area, the blue disc, is located more towards the front of the brass intake line. While there is limited area under the sail for the floating foam to move, left to right, I think that any movement with the location of the existing seating area, that head valve is not going to get a good seat or seal when the boats dives with any movement.

              I believe if there was enough blue seating material to cover the width of the snorkel float valve and center it on the same radius of allowable movement under the sail, would improve the seal.

              So my questions:

              1. What is the blue seating material on the snorkel float valve or acceptable substitute that can be locally purchased?

              2. Would having some of this blue sealing material around the brass intake line on the upper area improve or make for better seal on the head valve?

              3. What is the name or type of the blue silicone sealer that you use?

              A suggestion for an area of improvement on the WTC end caps:
              1. Modify the WTC end caps, mold an edge tab into the WTC end caps to able to push against the tab and the tube to help remove the end caps.



              Thanks
              Ernie
              All good stuff, Ernie. Clear and constructive.

              1. The rubber element is BJB, TC-5050 RTV mold making rubber. It has a Shore hardness of 50A. Anything softer would be acceptable.

              2. The intake nipple is sealed with CA.

              3. Permatex gasket-making silicon.

              Give me your mailing address and I'll ship out a replacement snorkel assembly right away. And list anything else you need to put things right.

              Bad idea encapsulating your receiver -- the water trapped within (unless you bake the receiver in a hard vacuum there will always be water present) will eventually rot the board. You can dunk these things all day, but if you quickly dry them off, they work fine. (not true on the old receivers that used iron-core trimming coils -- once they got wet it was tits-up time).

              David
              "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

              Comment


              • #52
                David,
                Thanks for the information on the receiver. I'll leave it encapsulated until I solve this in leakage problem then remove coating. I just about have it trimmed, the water in leakage and forgot my other set of batteries last time at my buddies pool.

                Thanks
                Ernie

                Ernie McElroy
                451 Country Club Drive
                Rock Hill, South Carolina
                29730

                Comment


                • #53
                  9 July 2017
                  David,
                  Just checking that you remembered to mail the replacement snorkel assembly out last week. I haven’t received it yet. Home mailing address is in above post.
                  Thanks
                  Ernie

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    11 July 2017
                    David,
                    Just checking that you remembered to mail the replacement snorkel assembly, out last week. I haven’t received it yet. You must have missed my post with my mailing address, 30 June 2017. Sometimes the deadly CRS disease attack us. My mailing address is below.

                    I tried to send you an email via the message center but I receive an error: “Cannot send message. User He Who Shall Not Be Named has exceeded their private message quota.”

                    Thanks,
                    Ernie

                    Ernie McElroy
                    451 Country Club Drive
                    Rock Hill, South Carolina – 29730

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by SSN687 View Post
                      11 July 2017
                      David,
                      Just checking that you remembered to mail the replacement snorkel assembly, out last week. I haven’t received it yet. You must have missed my post with my mailing address, 30 June 2017. Sometimes the deadly CRS disease attack us. My mailing address is below.

                      I tried to send you an email via the message center but I receive an error: “Cannot send message. User He Who Shall Not Be Named has exceeded their private message quota.”

                      Thanks,
                      Ernie

                      Ernie McElroy
                      451 Country Club Drive
                      Rock Hill, South Carolina – 29730
                      I'm positive I got it off last week. Give it a few more days, Ernie.

                      David
                      "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        19 July 2017
                        David,
                        I still have not received the replacement snorkel assembly. It has been a week since your post 11 July post asking me to wait a few more days. My mailing address is below.
                        Thanks,
                        Ernie

                        Ernie McElroy
                        451 Country Club Drive
                        Rock Hill, South Carolina – 29730

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          26 July 2017
                          David,
                          I still have not received the replacement snorkel assembly. It has been almost two weeks since your post 11 July post asking me to wait a few more days. My mailing address is below.
                          Thanks,
                          Ernie

                          Ernie McElroy
                          451 Country Club Drive
                          Rock Hill, South Carolina – 29730

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by SSN687 View Post
                            26 July 2017
                            David,
                            I still have not received the replacement snorkel assembly. It has been almost two weeks since your post 11 July post asking me to wait a few more days. My mailing address is below.
                            Thanks,
                            Ernie

                            Ernie McElroy
                            451 Country Club Drive
                            Rock Hill, South Carolina – 29730
                            Been out of the house the last couple of weeks. Yet another snorkel assembly has been sent to you, today.

                            David
                            "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              30 July 2017

                              I received the replacement snorkel assembly in the mail yesterday. I like this replacement snorkel assembly design, allows less movement of the floating section within the sail. I removed the old replacement snorkel assembly from the hull this morning. Did some dry fitting of the new assembly, cleaned the hull cementing area, everything thing looks good to go for reassembly, will CA new assembly in this afternoon. After it dries, start reassemble the entire boat, getting everything to restart trim testing, 4 August Friday, in my friends swimming pool. It’s a really good excuse to cool off in his swimming pool on a hot and humid South Carolina afternoon also.

                              Ernie

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by SSN687 View Post
                                30 July 2017

                                I received the replacement snorkel assembly in the mail yesterday. I like this replacement snorkel assembly design, allows less movement of the floating section within the sail. I removed the old replacement snorkel assembly from the hull this morning. Did some dry fitting of the new assembly, cleaned the hull cementing area, everything thing looks good to go for reassembly, will CA new assembly in this afternoon. After it dries, start reassemble the entire boat, getting everything to restart trim testing, 4 August Friday, in my friends swimming pool. It’s a really good excuse to cool off in his swimming pool on a hot and humid South Carolina afternoon also.

                                Ernie
                                Very good, Ernie. Keep us up-to-date on how it goes. We'll hook up at City Lake this October?

                                David
                                "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

                                Comment

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