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Scratch Build Project 955 Borei K-535 "Yuri Dolgoruki" SSBN. 1/140 Scale.

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  • Scratch Build Project 955 Borei K-535 "Yuri Dolgoruki" SSBN. 1/140 Scale.

    Hello All,

    After completing the re-tooling of the Resolution a couple of months ago, I have had the idea to embark on yet another boat. I can't help myself. Also every time I look at this forum I see fantastic models and skill on display and I think to myself that I can do better. After producing the tooling for both the resolution and the Mike I have had time to think back on what has worked well and what can be done better. I have some ideas about what I can do differently and how there are some better ways of doing some of the things I will need to do.

    I have through that the next design would be bigger. A larger boat, as this would allow more options for cylinders and configurations and would probably also be more appealing as a potential offering. I considered building a model of the Project 661 "Papa" class twin screw boat. I have always wanted to do a twin screw boat but don't have a twin shaft cylinder , nor the drive as yet to build one. I did also consider the Victor III.

    I finally came around to looking at the Project 955 Borei class SSBN. I have known about this boat for several years, but it didn't really dawn on me just how big it is. It's as big as the Ohio and as long as the Typhoon but of course not as wide. Both Mike and Resolution are at 1/120 scale. I printed off some plans of the 955 at this scale and it was huge. It wouldn't fit in my car. I have made the decision to therefore reduce the size of the boat by reducing the scale. I have made it at 1/140 scale. At this size the boat is still longer than the resolution and will only just fit into the back of my car.

    Now building the boat is probably going to anger some people. Firstly I will probably annoy John Slater. For months he has been advising that I should build bigger, build bigger. Sorry John, I am building slightly bigger! I will probably annoy HWSNBN as he will see in the photos I have turned the rear end and the front end in pine and scrap wood. He will probably berate me for using that "junk lumber" .Renshape for some reason in this country is rediculously expensive. Finally my wife will probably not be happy , 'don't tell me you're building another submarine?"

    I have a feeling this boat, although bigger will be more straightforward than Resolution. Resolution has very subtle and gradual shape evolution. Borei has more abrupt and distinctive shape changes along the hull. Straight forward round hull and distinctive missile deck. What is really distinctive is the unusual Fin / Sail. This fin is so un hydrodynamic. It is boxy and punctuated by the distinctive forward rake.



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    Once again I have gone with the turned ends and the PVC Pipe mid section. At 1/140 scale however the beam is slightly greater than the beam of both Resolution and mike so using the standard 90mm wide pipe would be not quite scale like. I have found that the 100mm pipe was a little too big for the scale so have decided to go in between. I have bought two lengths of 90mm pipe and split one down the middle. I then slide the other one inside and glued it. There is a gap of about 10 mm running along the top but now the diameter is 95mm.

    I then glued up several blocks of wood at school and mounted them on a face plate and screwed it to the lathe in order to turn it. I then turned it down to the right profile for the rear section of the hull and once sanded back to the right profile I gave a coating of polyester resin. I have not resin coated the rear hull section before whilst at such an early stage but I decided that much more early
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    on it would give a much smoother surface much more quickly and accurately. After sanding back with wet and dry it hase given a beautifully smooth surface.
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    I think I will be taking this build at a slower pace. I may not have weekly instalments.

    Anyway , enough for now

    David H
    Attached Files

  • #2
    No problem with the sewer pipe and turned wood ends -- any port in a storm. Just as long as they are stable, strong, and will take to primer. You must work to improve your scribing. At this point you've advanced from terrible, to not-so-terrible. When I'm done with you, you're going to be great at it!

    Once the three pieces of your hull master are assembled, build up a scribing substrate from a two-part primer-sealer. Build it up to a thickness of about .050 inches. Scribing into that substrate will be much easier than ripping into wood and PVC.

    This is pretty much a round-hull. Make a holding-scribing fixture as illustrated below.


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    Go get 'em, Tiger!

    M
    Attached Files
    "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Davidh View Post

      Now building the boat is probably going to anger some people. Firstly I will probably annoy John Slater. For months he has been advising that I should build bigger, build bigger. Sorry John, I am building slightly bigger! I will probably annoy HWSNBN as he will see in the photos I have turned the rear end and the front end in pine and scrap wood. He will probably berate me for using that "junk lumber" .Renshape for some reason in this country is rediculously expensive. Finally my wife will probably not be happy , 'don't tell me you're building another submarine?"

      I have a feeling this boat, although bigger will be more straightforward than Resolution. Resolution has very subtle and gradual shape evolution. Borei has more abrupt and distinctive shape changes along the hull. Straight forward round hull and distinctive missile deck. What is really distinctive is the unusual Fin / Sail. This fin is so un hydrodynamic. It is boxy and punctuated by the distinctive forward rake.


      David H.... not disappointed at all - your project. And I must admit, whilst I have scratch built masters of target hulls, I tip my hat to anyone having a go at doing so in the sub world.

      Whilst I tend to one scale-eyed in 1/72 (save for the ****ing Albacore Merriman needs to finish), the advice I have re size is to think of the guy buying the sub at days end.
      Where will he run it? How will he transport it? What WTC / SD he intends on putting it? Is he a paid up member of the 99c Ebay club that wants the world for nothing? To me, scale is a consideration of making both assembly and operation practical. This is a big beast and practical in a smaller scale. So David H you go for it.

      Have to echo God's words about your scribing efforts. What I have seen thus far, you tend to go way over-scale and the result ends up jagged. In this scale, I think the scribing needs to have a lighter touch. Then again, if the boat is intended to be a poverty pack -i.e. cheap to buy, then put the minimum scribed detail in and let the customer go nuts should they choose too. Could in this scale they mask the boat up for example with screen and airbrush the desired result?

      I'm back at grad school but I'll check in from time to time.

      Its a great project and you're in good hands with Merriman at the ready with the cattle prod.

      Cheers

      John




      John Slater

      Sydney Australia

      You would not steal a wallet so don't steal people's livelihood.
      Think of that before your buy "cheap" pirated goods or download others work protected by copyright. Theft is theft.



      sigpic

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      • #4
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        Thanks John and Dave

        I thought long and hard about the scale. As mentioned when I originally considered the scale of this boat 1/120 would make this boat an absolute screamer. It would require the back of my corolla to be lowered to get this sucker in. Making it 1/140 scale means that it would just fit lengthwise on the back seat. Recently I've had a couple of people order the Resolution class boat. Taking the bubble wrapped up boat to Australia post resulted In me being told that the hull was 5 cm too long and they wouldn't ship it. I had to find some couriers to do it. This got me thinking that I should really consider making this hull a split hull with a cut somewhere around the middle. So the hull will come in four pieces, this will allow for a more convenient box. I need to think about a way to design the break in such as way that its easy to glue straight and true.

        I drilled two small hole and counter sunked then at the bottom and the top and the rear end of the PVC pipe in order to put two small screws in and secure the stern section to the pipe. Once this was done I simply added some filler into the groove between the two.

        The next big job would be turning up the bow section. Like the back end this would involve turning a block of wood into a dome shaped section that would be consistent with the bow outline of an obscenely big Russian boat. So I started turning the block of wood with intermittent questions from year 9 students during lunch break either asking what I was making or saying some thing like " so this submarine will sink?" I made a small ring of PVA the same way that I built the hull, a split 90mm tube inside another to give a diameter of 95mm. I have then placed this around the live centre so I can then slip it over the turned piece to check for accuracy of diameter.

        Soon enough It came to my attention that the diameter was under what it should be. Bugger... I chucked that half turned piece of bow into the scrap bin. I found it later with a face drawn on it and looking suspiciously like a doll from playschool....Glued up some more blocks of wood and waited a day before mounting again on the lathe. Turning this one up I gave it more attention and finally got the shape I wanted.

        Like the rear end I gave it a generous coating of polyester resin. This stuff is great, it get year 9 students complaining about the smell. Then they want to leave, win-win!
        once dried some sandpaper with attitude and then smoother paper and wet and dry. then another coat. Year 10s complaining now.. Two more coats later and lots of sanding and as smooth as a baby's ..

        Get home and slip that baby into the front end of the pvc pipe. Nice fit.

        Once after this I could start cutting out the block of wood that would make up the raised missile deck, forward and rear deck structure. Anyway, enough for now.

        (I saved these pics up the right way. I don't know why they are on their side..)



        David H

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        • #5
          [ATTACH=CONFIG]n116135[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]n116136[/ATTACH]
          Last edited by Kazzer; 09-17-2016, 08:56 PM.

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          • #6
            Gantu,


            Do you have any good close up stern pics there the missile deck fillets into the main hull just forward of the upper rudder? Also any dry dock pics close up of the forward hull beneath water line?

            thanks

            david h

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            • #7
              Perhaps these two will suffice:
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              IT TAKES GREAT INTELLIGENCE TO FAKE SUCH STUPIDITY!

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              • #8

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                • #9
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                  Thankyou Green man and Gantu for picking up those gems.

                  The great thing about this boat is that there are plenty of really good photos of Yuri Dolgoruki. There are lots of good front and back end pics and some good dry dock ones as well from the rear in particular.

                  After the front and back ends tapered sections had been turned up and glassed and fitted into place, it would be time to look at the missile deck section that runs most of the length of the boat. I am fortunate in that this missile deck has reasonably straight forward transitions. There are none of the really subtle transitions that were nothing but headache for weeks on end when I was trying to interpret the front end of the Resolution class. For most of the length of the missile deck there is a really predictable and constant radius that transitions the flat deck to the almost vertical sides.

                  The missile deck features a flat section just aft of the last missile that gradually slopes down and tapers till it becomes level with the stern of the hull just meters in front of the Vertical fin. Forward of the missile deck the hull gradually slopes forward. It coincides with the positioning of the fin/Sail. As it does so it narrows and remains flat but barely raised above the rest of the hull.

                  To make this I cut out a section of scrap timber to the overall profile from a top view. Cut it to the basic shape and after calculating the thickness of the piece to make sure that it would simply rest on the top of the PVC pipe, eventually this deck would be screwed down with countersunk screws into the PVC. I marked the sloping transition section forward of the missile deck and applied a chisel to gradually reduce the material. On this model the reduction in the height of the deck from behind the sail to in front of it is only about 5mm. I made the piece intentionally narrow after thinking about how to round the sides. Initially I though of just cutting it to the correct width and simply sanding the radius all around. This would work but I would then spend a large amount of time just trying to the get the profile absolutely consistent. Then I saw a broomstick...

                  I took the broom stick handle (found in the scrap bin at school). We have a saying in the Industrial Arts department at my school and that is that "the F3 shall provide". The F3 being the freeway that me and a colleague take every day to school. The amount of scrap timber that we find on the side of it every so often broom handle included is amazing. I cut a 400mm section of broom handle and then cut it into quarters length wise to make nice corner strips to glue along the length of the missile section. This would guarantee a consistent rounded profile on both sides... genius.... This would mean that all the way around the profiles would generally be round. The breaks occurring with the dip towards the front and a gradual curving reduction at the back. The width with the flat middle section and the two quarter radius' on either side mean that the overall width had to carefully match up with an accurate height of the sides of the missile deck above the centreline. As the missile deck widens then the height of the sides increases with the curve downward of the hull.

                  As you are all probably aware, you learn from each previous project and getting symmetry right is one of those subtle things that you have to get right. I'm getting better at and will take the time. So at the moment I am not working on the sides of the missile deck until the flat top section is symmetrical and how I like it. Once the top profile is as good as I can get it I can cut out identical sides and glue in place. I will also not screw the missile deck down until it is almost complete from an assembly symmetry point of view. It is easier to work on it off the PVC pipe than on it.

                  David H

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                  • #10
                    Seriously,

                    What is with this page? The pics were up the right way and now they aint.!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Your methodology (technique refinements) and chronology (a more rational sequence of what-goes-where-when) is indeed improving, sir. You're getting there.

                      M
                      "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hello All,

                        Digital Dolgoruki,

                        I haven't had much time to work on this boat lately. I have put a couple of layers of resin down over the missile deck profile that covers most of the length of the hull. Getting symmetry before I add any side sections will be easier this way. Also sanding and getting it flat and consistent in terms of surface texture is much more assured now before I add the slopes that connect the flat deck to the PVC Pipe.

                        Like last year at this time I have been pulled in by the tractor beam that is my Wife's and sons passion for that game called Soccer. Last year it was Futsal up in Queensland. Fortunately this tournament was only in Sydney so just down the road, but its still taking up 4 days. Still I had the opportunity of dropping in on John Slater and talking shop for a while so that was good.

                        I digress...

                        Being a computing teacher has meant that I have been on the steady road of learning some cool software over the years to teach to my year 9-10 Computing students. One of may favourite programs has been Blender. For years I have been able to produce very convincing Zeppelin airships (one of the easiest things to build) amongst other things whiles some of my talented kids have been colliding planets and building HumVees. At night after all the soccer-ing is done and the goalee in bed I have been creating a "digital Dolgoruki."

                        Our school just invested in two 3D printers and one of my colleagues has been looking for us to supply subject material. Blender lends itself pretty well to 3D print files and so I thought this might be a great way to potentially fast track some appendage parts for this new boat. Get the three view drawing, place it as a background and work the mesh over the top. Create the sterns planes, they are as I can see identical just mirrored and symmetrical top and bottom. then hit Shift-D and R-180 degrees and hey presto you have two sets of stern planes. Email the 3D print file to my colleague and wait a week.

                        It will be interesting to see how they turn out. I envisage making several copies to get scale right and minor details here and there but it's cool to think that some machine somewhere is working hard overnight to make me happy in the morning. I have never printed out objects for any project before, but if it saves time and gives accurate repeatable parts then It must be a good thing. Anyone who has seen 3D printed objects knows that the there are tiny layer patterns across the surface and this is something that I am going to have to address. I am wondering if coating the whole piece in super glue and letting that harden.

                        Blender is a fantastic program. Although it is not a CAD program as such, It is really a 3D modelling and animation/ simulation program, it is a phenomenal program, and its free to download from www.Blender.org It will produce magnificent models and converting these files to 3D print format is extremely easy.

                        David H



                        before sanding back might do.
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                        • #13
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                          Hello all,

                          After being away for a week and "soccered out"
                          I am now back and spending the rest of the Holiday packing the house up, oh joy... However I have managed in the evening for an hour or two to do a little work here and there on the missile deck section. As mentioned in the previous post, I have sent some Blender files to a colleague who has the rule of the schools two 3D printers, of the stern planes of the Borei class, simply to see how they will turn out. I will probably need to scale up or down and work on the surface texture but being able to make consistent parts that are accurate will be a great step forward.

                          The missile deck has undergone somewhat of a transformation. I have once again gone through the cycle of sanding and filling then sanding and a resin coat, then more sanding and filling and then a resin coat. I quick coat of primer just to see the surface and where it is heading. looking down the length of the missile deck from the lower section at the front towards the transition where it angles up and widens toward the missile deck proper, I realised that there's too much curve in the centre and the slop bulges outwards, as a result I sanded this flat to get the transition flat and smooth.

                          I created a curved cut out profile to run along the length of the missile section of the missile deck. moving this profile piece up and down the length of the missile deck, it was clear that using the quarter dowel profile is certainly the way to get a consistent radius on the sides of the deck. Using a ruler all along the length of the hull checking for flatness showed that it is pretty true.

                          Placing the ruler along the front section has shown that the very front of the deck is raised and it lifts the ruler off the deck further down towards the upward transition. So I am in the process of sanding and filling down the front end to get it absolutely flat and consistent.

                          The plastic kit featured up the top give a really good indication of what I am after.


                          David H

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                          • #14

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                            • #15
                              So in the picture above with two subs and many tug boats; what submarine type is the one that the bow is facing the camera? Typhoon?

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