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Scratch build Soviet Project 661 Anchar "Papa" Class SSGN K-222 1/120 Scale.

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  • #16
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    Here are the images. Hope they come out O.K.
    If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

    Comment


    • #17
      See if these are larger images
      If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

      Comment


      • #18
        Looks good, I was considering having a go at this myself, although was looking at 1/72. I got hold of some sewer pipe to use as the main hull and scared myself silly with how big it would be. Ever since I'm torn between just do it and be sensible. Did you notice that the fillet between the stern pontoons is actually a flap. A your scale it might not be practical to have it working.
        Next time someone points out it takes 42 muscles to frown, point out it will only take 4 muscles to b1tch slap them if they tell you how mnay muscles you need to smile:pop

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        • #19
          Thanks Albion,

          Yes I know that the internal section between the twin booms is movable. I intend on making it movable as there should be the room for the control surface connections. It will be a
          tiny surface. Thanks Trout for the added photos. I actually have all of these, I'm now trying to hunt down obscure photos that are hard to get. Once more I tend to pick obscure boats to model even though there is plenty of photo's of Project 955 Borei. Mike was a challenge. Papa was around for over 40 years. Although not operational for all of this time you would think once again there would be more photos of this Boat. There are hardly any! Why?

          Anyway, back to the development of the hull masters..

          Last time I was working on the fillet top and bottom that joins the twin booms and creates a web type structure that gives a square edge between the two booms and allows the fitting of the internal flap. This will be tiny but should easily have the room for the connections to be joined to the outer stern hydroplane. I haven't started work on this yet. It will be designed on Blender and 3D printed later. For now I have spent time using filler to fillet out the profiles of the booms. I have then run a ruler over the stern area on the lookout for undulations. Where possible I would then fill these areas with filler and use a straight plastic edge to try and create a smooth fill over the top to reduce the amount of sanding required later. At this stage the stern and bow section is still detachable as I haven't yet screwed and glued them in with the main PVC section.

          My time is currently divided between this and the rebuild of Resolution. Yep, folks, its officially the boat I cannot leave alone. I have decided to re-tool it because it's still not right. Have been on it's case for a couple of weeks now and armed with some new detail am going to redo the main hull halves.

          enough for now

          David H

          I
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          • #20
            Hello all,

            With the overall shape of the stern and bow sections generally met, I decided it would be time to look into securing the front and back of the boats to the three layers of pvc pipe that make up a rather unconventional diameter. At the last Gosford Sub regatta I got talking to one of the Queenslanders that makes it down every second year, Jim Russel. I asked him about gluing PVC and he said that nothing beat using Plumbers PVC glue. I wasn't too familiar with it so along to Bunning's (big hardware chain here in Oz) to have a look. There are several different categories of this glue it turns out. I decided on the one for pressure pipes as I do want to build a Ballast tank using the pressurised system that I am very familiar with.

            Anyway this pressure rated PVC glue is a green goo. Has enough warning labels on the side of the pot. I made final arrangements to check that the pipes were set up the way that I wanted them to be. The outer pipe having the split at the top, this would be filled with filler and would make up the flat strip that runs the length of the boat. I then rotated the middle pipe with the split halfway down one side. The innermost pipe had no split.

            Once I arranged these in the right order I had to think about how I would put the green goo inside. The pvc pipe is fairly rigid and doesn't like to be flexed too much. The green goo is not to be messed with and I had to think about how I was gong to pry apart each layer of pvc pipe in order to get a layer of goo in their without the PVC pipe snapping back on me, and possibly flicking some of the goo in my face. Glasses and gloves.

            I carefully set up the pipes in such a way that I could use the little brush that comes in the pot, on the underside of the lid and then brush a layer on to the outside of the innermost pipe. I then carefully sprung apart the second middle layer and snapped it over the inner tube gently sliding it so that it rotated to the right position. Once done I then repeated the process with the glue on the middle layer for the last. then once all three were done making sure that they lines up and at the ends were aligned also.

            Then it was simply a case of sliding the bow and stern over the ends. Once this was done I looked a putting some self tapping countersunks in the top recessed section where the first split is. drilling these into position and then smoothing over with filler that would become the main deck on the hull.

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            David H

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            • #21
              Hello All,


              So after assembling the bow and stern plugs in place, and using self tapping screws to secure them at either end, I then filled the gap section that occurs at the top of the hull and runs the length of the PVC section. As mentioned before this was intentional as the top of the Papa's hull has a subtle flat deck section. By laying down filler and then sanding it back level I would be able to very easily replicate this section. I did notice that the bow section at the top is slightly higher than the flat section at the top, so I will have to sand a flat section beyond the end of the forward PVC section in order to make it continuous.

              I haven't started sanding down the top of the middle section yet. Too busy with an order, also retooling Resolution and creating my first twin shaft WTC for this baby.

              However I have managed to get the 3D printer to work it's charms. Back in October I started the development of a Blender model of the Project 661. I focussed mainly on the development of the appendage parts, all the stern planes and bits and pieces. The aim once again like the Borei was to get the Printer to do some of the 'heavy lifting' in terms of getting parts made. Soon enough I had the machine set up and worked out the scale of the parts to print and then off it went.

              3D Printing is a bit of an art form. The positioning is crucial. The was the part sits on the base will Either make it easier or harder on the printer and add more time and material for the print. Overhangs really slow down the job as extra 'scaffolding' is needed under the part. Fins print best pointing up and not lying flat. Lying flat they tend to bow.
              The brilliant thing about 3D printing is that while you work on something, you've got a little helper making parts for you. Also you can guarantee identical multiple parts.

              David H


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              • #22
                3D printing is a bit of an art form. Really!

                David
                "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

                Comment


                • #23
                  Hello All,


                  Setting up the parts in the right way to get the best out of the way the printer works is hit and miss and a bit of an art form. If the parts aren't set up well then gravity will do it's best to disappoint your print job. The key is to reduce the amount of overhang in a part and reduce the amount of scaffolding needed.

                  Printed off a few more parts, however have been busy as mentioned earlier with the Resolution and getting that boat to a point where I can re-tool it. I am in the final stages of Etching and scribing the hull detail on Resolution ready to produce the silicon moulds. Im now on Christmas holidays and so am in the position to really get a lot of stuff done. I'm batching it at the moment as the rest of the family is over in Scotland seeing family.

                  So I visited Hardrock (Scott) down in Ourimbah. I don't get to catch up often with Scott but its always good to see his handiwork and get inspiration. Wow his Russian diesel boats are simply stunning, especially his Zulu. Just gorgeous... I also got the change to have a look at his giant Delta 3. This thing is 1.7 metres long and makes my Project 955 Borei look soo small. Ironic really because Borei in real life is bigger!

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                  Whilst I have been doing some limited work on the Papa hull I have also managed to do some development work on the Cylinder for the Papa. I have never built a twin cylinder before so working out the twin shaft arraignment has taken some hours with pencil, paper and numbers. I have decided to create a new cylinder that is a bit of a departure from my usual cylinder designs. Instead of producing a design with a central ballast tank in the middle and a forward section ,I have gone with a design that is much simpler with less penetrations and less complexity. I have designed a cylinder without a tank. That will be separate and forward and made out of PVC pipe. I will use a pressurised pump set up Sheerline style and have the pump on the outside. This means I can make a very short cylinder that will sit quite rearward. The tank in the middle and then a 12v battery up front. End caps have been machined out of acrylic.

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                  The motors are direct drive low drain high torque canned types. I thought long about whether to gear them or not, but came to the conclusion that the props are soo small I don't think I'm going to have any problems with burnt out speed controllers. I also simply didn't have the room to gear each of them. Waterproofing them was enough of a challenge. Immediately behind the twin motors are the two servos for the hydroplane and rudder, then an area for the ESC RX, Failsafe and volt reg. Then the larger servo up the right side is for the pump pinch valve. Got to start soldering all the connections.

                  Below is a photo of some of the printed parts that I have managed to produce so far..

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                  Enough for now..



                  David H

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                  • #24
                    I've had a week to work on my models almost exclusively. I have however focussed a large portion of the time on the Resolution re-tooling. I have pretty much finished the hull master and am now in the process of laying up the top and bottom moulds.

                    The time that I have spent working on the Papa has been divided between working on the hull and the Cylinder. The work on the hull has been mainly just sanding down the flat deck section. I have gone over this with rough paper to start with and then down through progressively smoother paper. I have had to sand a little forward of the pipe onto the very forward section where the turned wooden bow section meets the pipe. The turned section that meets the flat section of the top deck sits slightly high so I've had to run sand paper forward to bring this bow section level until it drops of as it goes to the very bow. Once this was done I simply added filler where needed along the length of the flat section smoothing down with finer paper then adding more filler to the increasingly smaller divots in the surface.

                    I have started to look at spraying the printed parts with spray putty. Starting with the small propellers I have given them several coats. They are fiddly little things to work on and require fine work with rolled up sand paper and fine files. I file and sand a little and then spray some more putty then sand back. Slowly they become smoother and more uniform in shape.

                    The Papa should be a quicker build then the Borei or the Mike. It is a very simple shape and little work will be required up the front end with regards to getting symmetry right. The back end will take most of the focus, making sure that the booms are symmetrical and even. As a result It probably wont be too long before I can start etching detail into the forward hull. As can be seen by the pictures I have finally got hold of some Renshape. HWSNBN will be saying "Thank God, he's finally using some!" I was given this block by Scott (Hardrock), very generously, This is actually a French equivalent called 'Axson Labelite 45.'
                    It will be interesting to see what its like to use.


                    David H


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                    • #25
                      Once you use that stuff you'll never go back to wood, David. I can assure you of that. Welcome to the 21st Century, pal.

                      David
                      "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Back again,

                        I had originally made a fin out of pine. This was before I got hold of the pink machine able board. I made the two sides and then drilled holes to screw them together from underneath in order to align them and make sure that everything done to them would be to both sides at the same time. Once I got the Labelite I cut two sides and then quickly reduced them down to the basic shape needed for the overall profile of either side. On the belt sander this stuff reduces very quickly and in no time I managed to get a good symmetrical shape for the fin. I haven't yet managed to do any fine detail on the fin/ sail just yet however that will hopefully come along soon.

                        As mentioned I had laid down a channel of filler along the gap that exists between the outer layers of PVC pipe. Overfilling the channel then sanding back till smooth created the main flat deck section. I then had to sand further up the bow where the wooden turned bow section came up slightly higher than the flat deck I sanded down and got level. The next major job would be creating the section around the fin where the flat deck bulges sideways to give crew access around the fin. In order to get this right I made a profile out of plastic that was taken off the top view of the drawings I have available. I would take this profile and glue it lightly to the edge of the flat section of deck so that the profile sticks out slightly around the side of the hull. The idea being simply to mix up some filler and then squeeze it underneath the profile, pushing it in underneath and then rubbing a finger around the profile to get the filler to conform and create the shape of the bulged section. Once hardened I pryed the plastic profile off and there would be the overall profile of the bulged deck section. There were small air pockets which were then filled over and sanded back.

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                        Once again after using the profile on both sides I needed to make sure that they were symmetrical would result in some careful sanding. I also needed to make sure that the widened deck was level and smooth.
                        I also took sandpaper and carefully sanded so that the rim would coincide with the edge of the flat deck section as it moved forward towards the bow or sternwards.

                        David H

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Hello All,


                          I have spent a fair bit of time working on the cylinder design that I have made for the Papa. I have tried to make the cylinder as small as possible so that it would sit as far back as possible in the boat so that the PVC ballast tank would be as close as possible to the centre of gravity as possible. This has meant that all the systems assembled in the unit are vying for space. The biggest challenge for me was developing the twin shaft end cap. I had never built a twin shaft boat before and had to spend a fair amount of time making this work and watertight. I have always built my cylinders with end caps that screw on towards each other so that I could pressurise the cylinder by blowing air into it and testing leaks. The screw threads simply ensure that the end caps don't pop out.

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                          As can be seen by the pics, The motors are at the end. then next to them is the two small metal geared servos mounted on either side that will pushrod out to the rudder and hydroplane. After that in the middle of the acrylic tray is the where I have mounted all the electronics, the ESC, the failsafe, and underneath on a smaller tray the Rx and the voltage regulator. Towards the front of the cylinder is the roller arm servo that pinches a silicon tube that controls the water pump mounted on the outside. The threads that tension the unit run through holes at the back end cap. They are mounted one above the other and they are fixed onto the front end cap as there is no way to secure with wing nuts right where the pump would be mounted. The pump is a standard sealed windscreen washer pump. they are waterproof, all I needed to do was create a mounting for the pump and all the connections for the pump, a line going in and one going out for the water to be pumped into the loop where the pinch servo is mounted then past that and back out to the separate and external ballast tank. then two electrical connections as that unit would be running off a 12 volt SLA. The front end cap is really crowded. there is also a valve to pressurise the cylinder.

                          I have test the cylinder numerous times in the pool and it works really well. I may get a drop of water from one of the shafts. I will work on that.

                          Turning back to the masters I have been further sanding down the overall hull. Using templates to make sure that the gradual curve of the hull at the side slowly and subtly curves the way it needs to, evenly and on both sides. I also drilled two small holes in the back end where the props will go so that I could mount the props on brass shafts to get an idea of how they will look. I think, pretty good so far....


                          David H


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                          • #28
                            I just spent an hour writing up a detail of how I did the stern planes only to have this page, delete it!

                            Anyway here are some pics of the stern planes. I used Renshape to get the profile right for the plane fillet and also created a cut out for the rectangular protrusion that makes up the sprue on the mould. this will slot into a recess on the side of the hull mould when eventually made. Had to spend a fair amount of time make sure that the shaft hole either side was aligned both vertically and horizontally.



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                            Any comments and suggestions appreciated...

                            David H
                            Attached Files

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                            • #29
                              Looking good. The stern is a real hand-full!

                              David
                              "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

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