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Scratch build Soviet Project 661 Anchar "Papa" Class SSGN K-222 1/120 Scale.

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  • #46
    Following your progress, i am increasingly excited about the finished boat! Any chance to get this one in epoxy GFK when your done? best regards Jörg

    Comment


    • #47
      Hello all,

      Thanks Jorg, I know you 're really busy but looking forward to seeing pics of the Mike when she does get finished...

      I have spent a little time going over the MBT vents on the underside. I have a lot more to add and will get onto the rest, soon.

      I the mean time I decided to add the safety rails that run down the length of the top hull, either side of the flat deck section that is the foot area for the crew. Its pretty narrow from the front to the end with a curved bulge that matches the profile of the sail. I have used .5mm thick styrene sheet strip to simulate the raised safety rails that is a distinctive feature of Soviet and Russian submarines.

      I drew a line down the centre of the hull, in the middle of the deck section. Then measured evenly either side just to where the hull starts sloping away and marked a line where the safety rail will be placed. The straight lines fore and aft are only broken by the curved profile of the deck rail around the bulged sail section just forward of the middle of the boat. I had to make sure using a really long ruler that the forward and sternward rails were aligned and straight. I then got some fine sandpaper and lightly smoothed over the line to rough up the surface a little for the styrene strip to be laid down.

      I then cut two strips of styrene after marking out the length of the strips from just in front of the stern rudder, near the rearward escape hatch. These strips would extent to just rearward of the sail where the styrene would then curve around.

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      • #48
        Unless the PAPA was a departure, Soviet safety tracks were circular, not square in cross section.

        David
        "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

        Comment


        • #49
          Oops.....

          I haven't been progressed to far with Papa at the moment. I have actually been trying to get the retooled Resolution finally completed. I am also building a new cylinder for it that will also fit into Borei.
          I admit I hadn't looked too closely at the Rail geometry on the Papa. May be I should have. I do think that the styrene strip that I use for the rails on my Boats look quite good. I intend to try and get back to Papa soon enough. I still have a lot more vents to scribe and some squaring up of the stern end of the boat. However with a little more fine tuning I should be able to start looking at setting up the moulds and pouring silicon on the appendages. that will be good.

          David H
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          • #50
            https://vk.com/video-53952240_168150...6b06f7019fb980
            Regards Gantu

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            • #51
              Hello all,

              Thanks for the video link there Gantu. As mentioned earlier, this boat was around for 40 years and there are bugger all photos available of it! Why? Plenty of opportunities to photograph this boat out of the water and none seemingly taken. I believe when she was scrapped in 2010 there were foreign observers, surely they could have taken more pics. However this video is interesting, would be great if I understood Russian. however I would love some more drydock photo's of the rear end.

              I am on holidays at the moment but have been busy with trying to get Resolution retooled and ready to go. I'm in the home straight with her as I finally think that I have the proportions right. The new design Cylinder is also coming along well.

              I have done a little further work on Papa, really just scribing and sanding here and there. I have concentrated on developing and refining the stern flat section between the twin booms. This flat section has a mounted stern plane in between the two booms. I have sanded this area down smoothly and then giving a little more filler then sanding back to smooth. I have also been giving small dabs of filler in places here or there. The boat has been sitting on the bench for weeks now under a cloth as it is right under an window and needs protection from the sun. There has been some movement where the wood section meet the PVC pipe. This has meant ongoing sanding and filling.

              I intend on developing a new top of the sail/fin. The printed one that I produced has warped. I also intend on getting the fin finished and then start looking at creating the moulds for all the appendages.

              I have also trimmed the fillet along the bottom of the hull for the lower rudder. It protruded out a bit further forward than the leading edge of the rudder. So I trimmed it off with a knife and then sanded it back.

              One of the challenges of Papa is that the vertical surface hinges are small and well hidden. The top rudder section bucks the trend when it comes to soviet nuclear boats. The movable surface stops short of level with the fixed front surface, they've even put a nav light in there.. It almost looks like its been knocked off or incomplete. Virtually all other soviet boats have the fixed surface extend up and over the movable section, with the SSBNS, and SSGN often having a towed array or like the Victors and Akulas, A pod. I will have to arrange a hinge a little differently. The bottom rudder has little area for a hinge. I have used a small bit of brass tube. I am just concerned that it is a little flimsy and could break off. I also have to be careful that the mould design will allow the resin to get I there and form the small round hinge section.

              anyway,

              enough for now. David H



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              • #52
                Hello all,

                There has been some movement with Papa this week. As I have had a week off school I have managed to get some building done although I have probably spent most of my time doing Resolution which is looking fantastic If I may say so. I will hopefully be able to put up some pics of the re-tooled resolution on my webpage soon.

                On an extra note from last weeks write up about the fact that the top rudder does not come the full way up the vertical post. I have developed a hinge mechanism for it that will be something I've never tried before. It will be an "L" shaped brass pin that will embed into the rear edge of the vertical post and then sticks downwards. The movable rudder section will push up onto the downward facing brass L piece. It will slot into the hole that runs down the leading edge of the rudder. The main brass shaft will run up inside the rudder just short of where the L pin comes down to meet it. Does that make sense? I just have to now work out how to embed this into the silicon mould design. shouldn't be hard.

                I spent a little time this week creating and shaping the sail fillet/ mount profile. This is a raised outline slightly smaller in area than the actual fin and it is where the fin will sit. It is designed mainly with the kit in mind so that people can clearly see where the fin goes. It's boundary is about 2-3 mm less than the fin so that the fin sits outside of it. To do this I have simply taken some 2mm styrene and drawn a profile of the base of the sail and then cut it out. Sanded it and got it smooth and uniform. Once done I then re-established the centreline of the hull with a line that runs down the middle of the flat deck section and worked out where the sail would sit. Looking at drawings and making sure that the outline sits evenly and the right distance from the safety rails on all sides. After marking this out I then decided to take some 180 grit and start roughing up the area where the styrene would be glued. Once that was done, I simply applied superglue to the base of the styrene outline and glued it down right on the outline and pressed..

                I have also included a nice computer generated model of Papa and a pic of the new Beaut resolution...

                David H

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                • #53
                  Hello All,


                  Once again the stern section of the boat is where the action is. I had been looking at the detail just in front of the rudders. There is what looks like two hatches, one that is the usual Russian escape hatch, white and red and the other a broader flatter white ring that looks like a type of loading hatch. Or it could be a docking hatch, maybe someone could illuminate me on this one. I have gone ahead with this anyway. I have got onto my trusty lathe and put in a piece of brass to start turning up the escape hatch. This is a round dome like profile. I like turning with brass, It is a nice soft metal that turns beautifully and is just nice to work with. I also quite like turning plastic too, mainly acrylic or acetal.

                  After turning the small brass piece, I then parted off the piece. I then marked out where it should fit and drilled out a slightly wider circle to lay down the brass hatch. I would level it out before gluing it in and then filling around the edges with filler. Once dried, and using fine grit paper to sand around the edges and get the profile as close as it was to before. This dome has red and white sections I don't know where I should attempt to mark them out on the brass or not. Further forward is the wider round hatch as previously mentioned. To create this raised ring I simply took some styrene and with two swings of the compass had the right diameter ring to cut out to glue down. Once again I took sand paper and took the time to lightly sand down the outer and inner rim to get the profile to be just right.

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                  • #54
                    Hello all,

                    Another week where I have been spending most of my time apart form work, working on getting Resolution up and running. I finally built the ballast tank for Resolution out of a PVC drain pipe. I use the thicker PVC pipe as this tank will be under pressure. I have used some green PVC cement. This stuff seriously glues and smells positively alcoholic! I made a pick up out of Nylex garden nozzle length and with a heat gun simply bent it to the right angle. It enters the tank high and drops down to have the tip resting against the bottom of the tank, in between two baffles. After glassing down some aluminium cross bars I then bolted down the tank near the middle of the hull. I am just in the middle of trimming her at the moment...

                    I have done a little work on Papa. I have started creating the first of the moulds that will be used for making the final parts for the kit. I have started off with the propellers. A month ago or so I did a fair bit of filling and sanding to finally get the props to be just what I want them to be. Now it was time to start creating the tooling for these.

                    I have found propellers to have the most complex geometry of any parts that I make for a submarine, however I find that setting up the moulds for them probably the easiest of any parts I make. These moulds differ in that you pour down into the middle of the top mould, unlike fins and so forth where you pour down the part line into the mould. The flashing is still along the equator its just that you pour from the top. This means that you have to think about you venting and pour geometry a little differently. I am confident that the design that I have come up with will once again work well, so far it has for Komsomolets and Borei.

                    I have drilled out a small hole in the middle of some laminated board. This is where the centre rear hub of the prop will sit. I mark the outline of where the propeller will sit and the area taken up by the clay filleting around the edges. I trace a rim for where the acrylic tube will contain the silicon. I then lightly drill holes in and around the pattern, thus creating the registry points. Then I give a tiny dab of silicon to press and hold the propeller, hub facing down. Once done I then add clay around the rims of the blades taking the leading edge and filleting down to the base. Once this is done I can then silicon down the acrylic tube that will be the container. This is the easiest half of a mould to make.

                    Now it is simply a case of pouring the silicon. My colour for Papa is a beige light brown that is actually a mix of green orange and blue.

                    Once this has been pulled, I can then look at creating the second half of the mould, the one from which you pour the resin and use a 2mm thread insert to get the shaft thread embedded in the resin.

                    Next week....

                    David H




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                    • #55
                      Hello all,


                      After pouring the silicon for the first half of the mould, I then pulled the propeller out of the mould. As mentioned earlier this was the simple part of the mould that recreates the front end of the part. The second part of the mould would be more complex as I then had to create the pouring channel, the air vents and the insert that recreates the thread of the shaft.

                      I have found that the best way to channel the air out of the mould is to create vents that 'ride' up the ridge or upper edge of the propeller blade and then through the silicon to the upper surface. To do this I cut out an old plastic 2 litre milk bottle and then cut some small little profiles that I glue up along this edge. These profiles are shaped find of like and upside down letter "T'. The arms have a subtle curve on them to gradually allow the air , as it moves upwards to funnel its way to the hole and then out of the mould. The photos probably don't do it justice.

                      I then carefully glue a small brass shaft up one side of the bottom of the propeller shaft. This is where the resin will pour down into the mould. At the top of this I place a rounded piece of clay that will act as a funnel inside the mould. The idea being to pour the silicon up to level with the top of the clay. I also screwed the 2mm thread in the form of a 2mm bolt . This bolt will create the thread needed in the part once moulded. The bolt is pushed down into the mould and protrudes just slightly into the cavity, creating the thread shaped hole that will allow a shaft to be inserted and tightened.

                      Once this is all done the lower mould is rubbed vigorously with a thin layer of lanolin and then the propeller is placed back in. Once that's done the whole unit is slid down inside the acrylic cylinder that makes the walls of the mould. I silicon along the bottom of the cylinder to the wood base. I then mixed up a batch of silicon and poured it into the mould.


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                      The last photos show the top mould cured and with the acrylic tube taken off. You can see the plastic vents sticking up, the inserted bolt and the area that makes a funnel once the clay has been moved off the sprue pipe.


                      David H

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Sorry I haven't been around mate - liking this build. Well done. John
                        John Slater

                        Sydney Australia

                        You would not steal a wallet so don't steal people's livelihood.
                        Think of that before your buy "cheap" pirated goods or download others work protected by copyright. Theft is theft.



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                        • #57
                          Thanks John,

                          Good to to hear from you. Slowed down a bit of late. Renovations , a Resolution retool and too much school/government paperwork at work.

                          dave

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Was a nice surprise coming back in here... probably your best yet u/c...and I have identified a boat u/c here on SDF that I have always wanted in 72nd scale.
                            John Slater

                            Sydney Australia

                            You would not steal a wallet so don't steal people's livelihood.
                            Think of that before your buy "cheap" pirated goods or download others work protected by copyright. Theft is theft.



                            sigpic

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                            • #59
                              Hello all,


                              I have got to a point where I can freeze the design of the appendages and control surfaces. They designs are pretty much locked in a so now the process of making the silicon moulds
                              starts. I am starting off with the horizontal stern planes. the fixed plane and the movable one. Once again I have gone down the tried and true method that works for me anyway and that
                              is the box method with sprues and wire vents glued to the surface.

                              Firstly I outline the profile of the parts, making sure that they are well below the top of the mould. The longer the sprue,the more gravity can pull down extra resin when the Bubbles collapse.
                              I then draw the lines around the side where I intent to put the vent lines going up to the top and draw a wide funnel section at the top. This allows me to pour excess if need be and allow that head of resin as mentioned before slowly pull down as gravity and pressure replace bubbles. I then drill holes around the sides as these are the register points for the two halves.

                              Once done I then start cutting out the shape of the part so that it will sit about half way up with the flat surface of the mould. I like the parts sightly 'sunken'. Once this has been done with the
                              Dremel tool I then push brass inserts through the holes. Once the parts are in place I can then go around the surfaces with modelling clay and get the edges around the parts, smooth.

                              Then I cut out and lay down thin wire, Ive looked all over the house for paperclips and couldn't find any so I found some thin brass wire and cut out small strips and laid them down in between the register holes. Running from areas I through experience have taught me have been areas where bubbles can accumulate up to the top. This will mould a nice neat channel into one side of the mould. Then I will replace these on the other side, come time to create that.

                              Finally I then cut out and add Balsa strip to the top of each of the parts and create a funnel at the top of the mould. This will be the sprue for pouring the polyurethane resin.

                              Meanwhile I have taken rectangular blocks and created the walls around the outside. I use two countersunk screws per block and make sure that the edges are sealed.

                              So that's one side done.....

                              David H

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                              • #60
                                Hello all,

                                So after creating the one side I then mixed up some RTV silicon. For each design that I do, I buy a new silicon pigment colour to do the moulds in so that I can easily recognise which kit
                                they are from. I have decided that the colour would be a beige skin colour. I decided to mix this by using some orange, green and Blue from the pigments used on previous boats. Mixed together all these
                                colours end up making a nice tan colour.

                                Checking around the side of the mould walls I pushed some clay into gaps in the walls just to ensure no leakage. Once this is done it is time to pour the silicon. I usually pour the silicon at night, just before I go to bed and come and look at it the next morning. Usually by then it is rigid and stiff and ready to pull off the base. Once pulled off I simply had to clean out the mould part. There was left over clay from the funnel tops and pull the wires out from the mould. I also go around the outside of the mould and trim off excess silicon. I take a Stanley knife and cut grooves around the vents just to give more passage for air to escape.

                                Once that is done I simply repeat the process except that I use the base of the already made mould part to mount the parts and recreate the mould ready for the other side. Firstly I take some lanolin and rub it all over the mould just so that the new silicon wont stick to the old. I took the balsa strips and re-laid them in the channels that will serve as the sprues. Extra lanolin gets wiped into the cavities created by the wires that act as the vent channels. Place the parts back in the mould with the brass inserts in the holes where needed. Re-screw the outer walls on the mould and add red clay to re-create the other half of the funnels at the top of the sprues.

                                Once this was all completed I simply poured more silicon and waited till it had hardened the next day. Once hardened simply pull apart and pull the masters out. No longer needed. Clean up the mould and you're almost ready to start pouring urethane. Bottom rightcs show the completed moulds and also some of the first parts to be pulled from them...

                                David H




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