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Adf2 failsafe verification

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  • Adf2 failsafe verification

    I have kind of ignored my boats behavior in swimming pools when I dive too deep and signal is lost. It sinks. However, I am increasingly playing in ponds. So I need to look into this issue. I got it programmed to blow ballast by opening the solenoid valve to release air into the bladder. Obviously not working as programmed. Using ES2 to control the pump and solenoid valve. The compressed air is at 15 psi. The depth it sinks to is from 3' to 7'. I want to bench test the system by mimicking a lost signal to see what is really going on with the air. I tried by turning off the transmitter. The pump run continuously so it will really sink i.e. dive. How can I bench test it ? HELP

  • #2
    Yeah, running in swimming pools does have a way of leaving us in a place where the failsafe isn't so critical. But now that it's more of an issue for you let's get this sorted out!

    Turning off the transmitter is the right test your ADF2, and is sounds like it may just be set up the wrong way, but before we get too far into that I think I also need to know a little more about your setup:
    -Let's start with the radio, and even more important the receiver. What are you using there?
    -From your description I'm guessing that you're using a Reverse-RCAB type ballast system? (Pump moves air from flexible bladder into rigid container to dive, solenoid releases air from pressurized container back into bladder to rise.) Please confirm!
    -When bench testing the ADF2 does the red light start flashing as soon as you turn off the transmitter, and then eventually go solid? Please confirm!

    KMc
    Kevin McLeod - Oscar II driver
    KMc Designs

    Comment


    • #3
      The Receiver is WFLY 9 CHANNEL. The Transmitter is also WFLY 08 9 CHANNEL. 75 mhz, using 69 crystals.
      Confirm Revere RECAB System.
      Confirm that the ADF2 does not display any light after turning off the transmitter. pump runs till pressure switch turns it off.
      Appreciate your prompt support.
      Last edited by cliffhanger67; 09-08-2018, 01:32 AM. Reason: Posting does not match my complete info. reedit to restore missing, incorrect words.

      Comment


      • #4
        No problem!

        The last point is confusing - when the ADF2 loses signal the red LED should illuminate to show that it's lost signal. If your red LED isn't coming on when you turn off your Tx that may be because your Rx is substituting it's own signal. Let's try a test to see if that's the case.

        Do you have an old servo that you use for testing things with? (Preferably a "standard" size one as they've generally got really beefy gears, and definitely not a digital one.) You'll need to be able to carefully back-drive it from the output shaft to see what it feels like, so put a servo arm of some kind on it that you can get your fingers around. Now unplug the ADF2's ballast channel input from your Rx and replace it with the plug for the test servo. With the system depowered try carefully moving the servo output shaft to see what it feels like - it should resist, but you can make it move. Now turn on the Tx and Rx, and try moving the servo again - you'll feel this time it will fight you because the servo is getting command signals from the Tx/Rx. (You can stop as soon as you feel it fight back, you don't need to see where you can over power the servo.) Now, turn off the transmitter but leave the Rx on and try back-driving the servo again. Does it fight you like it did with the system powered, or does it go limp like when there's no power applied?

        KMc
        Kevin McLeod - Oscar II driver
        KMc Designs

        Comment


        • #5
          KMc,
          I think I may not have done the test right. I redid it. This time I leveled the boat so the ADF2 shows a solid green (G). When I turn off the transmitter, it flashes R,G,G,R,G and nothing happens. Then I repeated the test as the first time. The ADF2 still flashed R,G,G,R,G this time. i am not sure why the first test was that way.
          There is no response from the boat, just quiet. i could not find a matching code in the instruction manual. The ADF2 just remains green. Is the test you prescribed still good to do?
          Thanks for the patience.
          Last edited by cliffhanger67; 09-09-2018, 05:46 AM. Reason: added a third test repeating first.

          Comment


          • #6
            Don't worry about it if we've taken a wrong step, we'll just get back on the path and figure out what's going on. Let's take a step back for a moment though and go over a few things (and please forgive me if I'm going over things that may seem obvious.) The ADF2's start-up flash pattern only tells me what it thinks it's seeing at "start of mission". It's important information about how your system is set up, but it may not tell us everything. The initial R+G tells me that the processor is working correctly and that the it's talking with the angle sensing device. The three blink pattern that follows (G, R, G in your case) tells me that the ADF2 is seeing signals on both the pitch and ballast inputs and something about the relative timing of the two. But this is all information about "normal conditions" just after you've turned everything on normally and what we're looking to understand is what happens to the system when the receiver stops hearing the transmitter mid-mission. Let's take another look at what's going on then.

            Most receivers will do one of two things when they stop receiving a signal from the transmitter: 1.) They stop putting out pulses all together, or 2.) They will immediately begin repeating/regenerating the last information they got. What the ADF2 needs is the first case, but I'm afraid that your Rx may be operating as the second. When the ADF2 stops getting signals from the Rx it will begin flashing the red LED, but from what you've described this doesn't seem to be the case. This is where the test from above comes in to help figure out what's going on - if we can confirm without even using the ADF2 that the receiver is continuing to make pulses after the transmission stops then we know what's going on. (Also note that at this point in the programme the green LED will still come on anytime you're near zero-bubble regardless of signals being received or not, so at this point you can ignore what the green LED is doing.)

            So, yes please, definitely do the "servo test" described above and lets see what that tells us about what the receiver is doing in the absence of a transmitted signal.

            The WFLY 9 channel receiver comes in two flavours, one of which has a switch on top with positions that are marked A and B. Do you have the one with the switch? If so, what position is the switch in?

            KMc
            Kevin McLeod - Oscar II driver
            KMc Designs

            Comment


            • #7
              Kevin,
              ADF2 has labels. a=pitch signal lead connects to ch 6 of receiver, c=pitch out put connector receives aft diving plane servo, b= ballast F/S signal lead connects to LIPO Guard , d= ballast output connector receives ES2
              LIPO connects to ch 4 of receiver. where should i unplug to connect test servo? it's b that i must disconnect. either at LIPO or ch 4? basically LIPO is between ADF2 "b" and ch 4 of receiver.

              Comment


              • #8
                ok, anxious to fix. now using tx WFLY WFT08X, 8 Channels with two levers at the top, A & B. I broke these 2 levers when this got dropped. in the past i did not pay attention to its use so i do not know how it works. for now i cannot tel their positions.
                i disconnected "b" of ADF2 from the receiver ch 4. i think you really wanted to check the out put of this channel.
                depowered, the servo felt just like unconnected resistance that is it moves. powered tx and rx: very stiff resistance. tx off, rx on: same as powered tx and rx.
                i also have a second WFLY tx. 6 channels model FT06-A. Repeated this test. same results.
                i then restored the connections on the boat receiver. tested turn off tx. ADF2 shows sequence of lights as before or none. nothing gets turned on on the system. tested with both tx.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by cliffhanger67 View Post
                  depowered, the servo felt just like unconnected resistance that is it moves. powered tx and rx: very stiff resistance. tx off, rx on: same as powered tx and rx.
                  Yes! This is the test I needed you to do. Unfortunately this suggests that your Rx has its own failsafe, which will prevent the ADF2 failsafe programme from running.

                  Originally posted by cliffhanger67 View Post
                  i also have a second WFLY tx. 6 channels model FT06-A. Repeated this test. same results.
                  Good thinking! But did you do this test with the same Rx as the first time? The failsafe behaviour I believe we're seeing comes from the Rx, so that's the part that we really need to swap out. Do you have a separate receiver to try?

                  Back to an earlier question of mine, does your Rx happen to look like this?

                  Click image for larger version

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                  Or like this?
                  Click image for larger version

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                  (Notice the slide switch on the front face of the second Rx- this is what I was talking about with the A/B switch.)

                  KMc
                  Attached Files
                  Kevin McLeod - Oscar II driver
                  KMc Designs

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The receiver I have is like the first no switch. I have two of this type. None of the one with switch.
                    what I cannot understand also is the behavior now when the RC is turned off. Before it caused the pump to run continuously. Now nothing.
                    anyway, this is the prognosis? I need a different receiver. 75 MHz are hard to find.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes same Rx all tests.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The WFly receivers do have a built in loss of signal and does conflict with anything expecting a traditional loss of signal. There is a thread here on that - instructions on the receiver. I will try to find it. I cannot recall if it can be turned off at the receiver.
                        found it:
                        Originally posted by trout View Post
                        I found the instructions on how to do it.
                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]20019[/ATTACH]
                        Go here:
                        https://forum.sub-driver.com/forum/b...l-s-type-xxiii
                        about midway down. If you go past the posting of David wanting a baby with me, you have gone too far (much like David did LOL).
                        Last edited by trout; 09-11-2018, 08:56 AM.
                        If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks for jumping in with that Tom! The directions on that receiver definitely leave a lot to be desired. I don't know if this receiver works the same way, but I know with Futaba PCM receivers you can't actually turn the failsafe "off", all you can do is choose between holding the last valid commanded position or going to a pre-programmed (failsafe) position on loss of signal. The point of this is that neither one of these will work with the ADF2 because it needs to stop seeing signals coming from the Rx to activate its failsafe programming.

                          As for options here, you can set up your existing receiver to command the ES2 to activate your ballast solenoid on loss of signal. The other option would be to upgrade your LiPo Guard to a BLM, it's got a more sophisticated failsafe detection algorithm that can be programmed to work with a receiver that has a built-in failsafe, but still give you the longer time delay and multi-stage features in a
                          Kevin McLeod - Oscar II driver
                          KMc Designs

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks for all the help. I tried the suggested programming to select a specific servo action. No luck. In fact the option in the WFLY manual is barely showing. It seems this choice is not available for our application.
                            i found a SombraLabs Lepton 6 Shadow3. I followed the programming instructions to target specific servo. It worked on my parts boat set up. But when I installed into the boat I am fixing it was not working as same. The pump runs to max pressure. Turns off by pressure switch. Immediacy,the solenoid valve opens with no commands. I am still pulling my hair finding out why the solenoid is getting power to do this with out moving the stick to turni it on.

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