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SKIPJACK Class circa mid-late '70's Hull Numbers on sail.

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  • SKIPJACK Class circa mid-late '70's Hull Numbers on sail.

    All,

    I've always portrayed my boats (cold war nukes) as they would appear on patrol, w/o those bright white Hull numbers painted on them. I've decided after all these years to stop that practice and go ahead and add them, appearing as if she just left the yard for a photo op. Photo being the "key" word here as I now want my models' of the boats they portray to be ID'd as that boat.

    So here's a multi-part question.

    1-I remember the GRANT (on which I served) had intermittent weld marks spelling out 631 on the sail, but we never had them on during my rotation. So can I assume they're a standard size to be visible from some specified minimum distance?

    2-Size? Looking at a lot of old photo's, I'm thinking 3'. Is that correct?

    3-If indeed larger than 2', I'm in trouble since at my scale 1:48, the biggest set of dry transfers from "Woodland Scenics" has a max height of 1/2".

    4-Is there an alternate dry transfer Manufacturer with 3/4" numbers in the appropriate font?

    5-Alternative method's w/o a huge $$ investment? Blue tape mask, Xacto, airbrush? Print your own decals? Sign-O-Rama??

    Thanks!


    NEVER underestimate the power of a Sailor who served aboard a submarine.

  • #2
    I've got a superb source for custom dry transfers. They did the work on my ALVIN and also made me custom watermarks and hull numbers for my current Thor Seawolf refit. If you can send me a detailed list, or better yet, a JPG of what you need, along with sizes, I can get you a quote pretty fast. They're really reasonable. I believe a full set of custom transfers for the SeaWolf worked out to about $80 including a full-color 3"x3" logo from the boat.

    Bob

    Comment


    • #3
      Each class has (or maybe 'had', this was over forty-years ago) in the engineering log-room a copy of the 'painting schedule' which not only defined the blacks and grays demarcation lines, but also means of application, location, font, and size of draft, name, and hull numbers. I can't speak for non SubPac units, but our Commodore had all his units weld-beads (that defined the edges and boarders of the big sail numbers) ground off. So, no painted hull numbers on the sail. But we did have these big, heavy, pain-in-the-ass hull number plaques we would hang on the sides of the sail for special occasions. We did sport the for and aft draft numbers, but no ships name or hull numbers.

      Here's what we looked like after leaving Pearl for our extended yard period at Groton:



      No hull numbers, no name, and the black-gray 'Pacific scheme'. The boat, patrol ready.

      And Here's what the pig-fish looked like when decked out for the camera (post commissioning or pre-com somewhere):



      International-orange escape buoy fairings plates, name, hull numbers, and draft numbers.

      If you can't find decal or dry-transfers for the markings, you do this:













      David
      "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SubHuman View Post
        I've got a superb source for custom dry transfers. They did the work on my ALVIN and also made me custom watermarks and hull numbers for my current Thor Seawolf refit. If you can send me a detailed list, or better yet, a JPG of what you need, along with sizes, I can get you a quote pretty fast. They're really reasonable. I believe a full set of custom transfers for the SeaWolf worked out to about $80 including a full-color 3"x3" logo from the boat.

        Bob
        Thanks Bob!!

        Jpeg's would be easy!! Do I specify the letter height and they scale, or do I provide 1:1?

        Do they charge by sheet (size) or letter quantity? IE: 1 8.5x11=$80 or 50 letters for $80

        Knowing this I can set up the jpeg......

        If it's by the "sheet" then I can get all that I need for the 1:48 scale boats (SHARK:591, NAUTILUS:571, KEY WEST:722), all on with one shot. I just need two of each for the sail(s).

        I assume black letters on a white background would be used as a "negative", or do I need to supply white on black background as camera ready? I can even do white on alpha(transparency).

        I see they do color!

        Specifically I'm also gonna need Black and Red.

        Ray Mason gave me some beautiful camera ready artwork I can use for my Teskey PROTEUS (U-91035). Just need to see what scale I need it at if provided for 1:1. Now I really have to look at those pic's I have of the miniature now to determine the approximate letter size.

        Click image for larger version

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        NEVER underestimate the power of a Sailor who served aboard a submarine.

        Comment


        • #5
          I assume it's by area printed on the sheet, so it's more about the individual files than mashing them onto a single image. You can just provide a scaled PDF, or else a JPG with measurements of letter height, etc.

          Yes, they do full color images!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SubHuman View Post
            I assume it's by area printed on the sheet, so it's more about the individual files than mashing them onto a single image. You can just provide a scaled PDF, or else a JPG with measurements of letter height, etc.

            Yes, they do full color images!
            Wow! I see a new product line here: Soviet/Russian city crests for submarine sails; draft numbers; hull numbers; Russian draft markings; retractable fairing 'leopard spots'; Russian deck access hatch white boarders; British 'red' draft markings; ships names; and (if they do metallic): MBTV's and salvage plates.

            Offer as water-slide decals or dry-transfers.

            David
            "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by He Who Shall Not Be Named View Post
              Each class has (or maybe 'had', this was over forty-years ago) in the engineering log-room a copy of the 'painting schedule' which not only defined the blacks and grays demarcation lines, but also means of application, location, font, and size of draft, name, and hull numbers. I can't speak for non SubPac units, but our Commodore had all his units weld-beads (that defined the edges and boarders of the big sail numbers) ground off. So, no painted hull numbers on the sail. But we did have these big, heavy, pain-in-the-ass hull number plaques we would hang on the sides of the sail for special occasions. We did sport the for and aft draft numbers, but no ships name or hull numbers.

              Here's what we looked like after leaving Pearl for our extended yard period at Groton:


              No hull numbers, no name, and the black-gray 'Pacific scheme'. The boat, patrol ready.

              And Here's what the pig-fish looked like when decked out for the camera (post commissioning or pre-com somewhere):

              International-orange escape buoy fairings plates, name, hull numbers, and draft numbers.

              If you can't find decal or dry-transfers for the markings, you do this:


              David
              I see!

              He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him. I'll chase him round the Moons of Nibia and round the Antares Maelstrom and round Perdition's flames before I give him up!
              Khan Noonien Singh
              Having seen you touch up this over the years, this is what I was thinking for the larger hull numbers on the sail as my b/u plan. Now you have me thinking about doing the escape bouys!

              Jeez I remember the Whiskey Tango Foxtrot feeling after seeing them welding straps over them just before my first patrol. That's when my Chief said, "Don't worry Toad, 90% of our patrol zone is in waters where they won't matter anyway." After seeing over 2K+ FATHOMS on the charts during the Patrol, I kinda knew why lol.

              In the end, I do want a light touch on what I detail and not "overcrowd" the boat. Just my thing.

              I see you built up the stencil with multiple pieces of tape. I'm thinking you precut "off boat" then add as opposed to add tape and cut right on hull? Or a combination of both?

              Do you give it a quick clear coat before the final coat to prevent "bleed"

              Straight lines like he font of the numbers using a fresh blade seems "easy" enough. But the arcs of the buoy" indicates great care, or do you have a trick?

              Finally, after looking at photo's of her, I'm sticking with 36" @ 1:1 They appear to be half the height of the lookout access door, line up approximately with the bottom of it, and the trailing edge of the F/W.




              Thanks for the scoop on "painting schedule". Makes PERFECT sense, but I never actually saw the GRANT's. My painting was based on her drydock photo's, and the "Med" run we did, when the Skipper left the non-skid it's natural grey color.

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              I have a LOT of photo's of the GRANT, I need to have them scanned and digitally mastered for posterity.

              BTW...when are YOU doing a 1:96 scale of the WEBSTER and her unique bow planes?? I bugged ya before!! THAT would be unique at the pond.
              NEVER underestimate the power of a Sailor who served aboard a submarine.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SubHuman View Post
                I assume it's by area printed on the sheet, so it's more about the individual files than mashing them onto a single image. You can just provide a scaled PDF, or else a JPG with measurements of letter height, etc.

                Yes, they do full color images!
                All right, I'll put something together soon and send your way.

                FWIW, I recently joined a group on FB called Cold War Submarine Veterans. With 10.3K members, TALK about source of potential information! Which actually lead me back to thinking about refitting my 1:96 GRANT even though I swore of smaller than 1:48 scale boats. Which is leading me to a SubDriver, which is leading to more business for you both lol. Just have to decide what will CLOSELY replace that defunct 1995 D&E Miniatures 3.5. Cranked all the way in for the GRANT, I'm thinking 41.48in^3 of volume, ~ 22 oz FW. Check my numbers Dave. The length was on the order of 18 1/2" if I remember correctly. Problem is the ballast tank itself was forward, NOT in the center which seems your design plan now that everyone floated away from Pb power and enclose the batteries inboard. Would require quite a bit of work to move a larger cylinder forward.

                I mean to have an almost ready to go again accurate model of the boat I served on and just let it collect dust because I "need a bigger boat", is not logical! Plus I think the losing 75mhz got me spooked as I don't want to run coax here, and I want to insure I can replace electronics for years to come. Yes possible with coax, but a pita and I like to run deeper with this boat.
                NEVER underestimate the power of a Sailor who served aboard a submarine.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by QuarterMaster View Post

                  All right, I'll put something together soon and send your way.

                  FWIW, I recently joined a group on FB called Cold War Submarine Veterans. With 10.3K members, TALK about source of potential information! Which actually lead me back to thinking about refitting my 1:96 GRANT even though I swore of smaller than 1:48 scale boats. Which is leading me to a SubDriver, which is leading to more business for you both lol. Just have to decide what will CLOSELY replace that defunct 1995 D&E Miniatures 3.5. Cranked all the way in for the GRANT, I'm thinking 41.48in^3 of volume, ~ 22 oz FW. Check my numbers Dave. The length was on the order of 18 1/2" if I remember correctly. Problem is the ballast tank itself was forward, NOT in the center which seems your design plan now that everyone floated away from Pb power and enclose the batteries inboard. Would require quite a bit of work to move a larger cylinder forward.

                  I mean to have an almost ready to go again accurate model of the boat I served on and just let it collect dust because I "need a bigger boat", is not logical! Plus I think the losing 75mhz got me spooked as I don't want to run coax here, and I want to insure I can replace electronics for years to come. Yes possible with coax, but a pita and I like to run deeper with this boat.
                  You likely are using one of Lee's 1/96 616/640 class SSBN's? If so, the 'standard' 2.5" SD has the power and ballast tank volume to get that beast up to speed and floating to designed waterline (The 3.5" would have put about 20% of the ballast tank above designed waterline -- useless!). This is the SD I'm using with my WEBSTER (tested, but not finished). Length of the SD is a tad over 20", but that includes the forward dry space that takes a 3Ahr Lithium-polymer batter.

                  This puts the ballast tank at the center of the model. Problem solved.













                  David

                  "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    All right Dave, that's the advice I'm looking for brother.

                    Interesting though as I was leaning towards the 3". I wanna check my mounts again and see where the top of the unit would sit with the w/l. I could swear the 3.5 was good for a 4.125" hull diameter, but to be I had <1/4" between it an the inner hull surface (3.5+ ~.25 = ~3.75) or about 30' scale, not really good after all considering the waterline is around 27' if I remember correctly. 3" OD, + 3/8" gives me 27' on the nose. The 3/8" is the original 1/4" saddle plus 1/8" (foam rubber?) spacer to make adapting easy. "Close enough for Government work" my Chief always said!

                    Absolutely is Upchucks 640 Hull. I lengthened and split the upper rudder (articulated?) Added the Towed array reel "hump" to stbd outboard of the AMR#1 Hatch as well as the housing along the side to the stern plane and the exit tube there as well.

                    I think I had to raise the F/W's as well since they are lower on the FRANKLIN's.

                    Speaking of which, I always had adequate depth control with these F/W's! I just always kept my mouth shut due to "know it all's" and their opinions. Hence our conversation regarding my how well they work on the SHARK. You actually see the boat go up and down in my video!

                    I'm off to plan now. See what I have in the SRP program. This would be a rather quick build since other than fitting it, the hull is done.
                    Little to no impact on my other builds. Another nicety of the SD line, and one knows what one is doing.

                    I think I saw you with a couple of VEX 6-channel Radio Transmitters. I have a spare Robbe Rx775 PPM receiver laying around with extra crystals. Even if I get it with the RX, I have spares for more boats. Thoughts?

                    NEVER underestimate the power of a Sailor who served aboard a submarine.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by QuarterMaster View Post
                      All right Dave, that's the advice I'm looking for brother.

                      Interesting though as I was leaning towards the 3". I wanna check my mounts again and see where the top of the unit would sit with the w/l. I could swear the 3.5 was good for a 4.125" hull diameter, but to be I had <1/4" between it an the inner hull surface (3.5+ ~.25 = ~3.75) or about 30' scale, not really good after all considering the waterline is around 27' if I remember correctly. 3" OD, + 3/8" gives me 27' on the nose. The 3/8" is the original 1/4" saddle plus 1/8" (foam rubber?) spacer to make adapting easy. "Close enough for Government work" my Chief always said!

                      Absolutely is Upchucks 640 Hull. I lengthened and split the upper rudder (articulated?) Added the Towed array reel "hump" to stbd outboard of the AMR#1 Hatch as well as the housing along the side to the stern plane and the exit tube there as well.

                      I think I had to raise the F/W's as well since they are lower on the FRANKLIN's.

                      Speaking of which, I always had adequate depth control with these F/W's! I just always kept my mouth shut due to "know it all's" and their opinions. Hence our conversation regarding my how well they work on the SHARK. You actually see the boat go up and down in my video!

                      I'm off to plan now. See what I have in the SRP program. This would be a rather quick build since other than fitting it, the hull is done.
                      Little to no impact on my other builds. Another nicety of the SD line, and one knows what one is doing.

                      I think I saw you with a couple of VEX 6-channel Radio Transmitters. I have a spare Robbe Rx775 PPM receiver laying around with extra crystals. Even if I get it with the RX, I have spares for more boats. Thoughts?
                      Those who say sail-planes are ineffective are the same guys who never got their boat properly trimmed out in the first place. How can these 'authorities' issue such conclusions as to control surface effectiveness if the platform is dynamically and statically unstable? Dumb-asses. Purveyors of bum dope. Too much of that going on over the decades. I spend too much time correcting 'the record' because of these guys.

                      Yeah, Fred Freketic wanted me to check out the bang-bang switches on the back of his VEX 6-channel transmitter. Looks to me that the wires go to an encoder board with the same circuitry as that used by the four proportional channels up front. So, we likely can replace the two-position switches with sliders, knobs or sticks. That would make these robot transmitters better suited for our particular needs. I'll stick some 10K Ohm pots to those wires when he brings the transmitter with him later this summer. We'll see.

                      Hang onto those receivers like they were made of solid Plutonium! (and quickly scrub your hands!).

                      David
                      "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

                      Comment

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